The Voice of Cape Verdeans | Vos di Kabu-Verdianus

forcv · Site Admin Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 238

Op-Ed

Stereotypes Edited!
A deeper look into the Racial Perceptions and Misconceptions Between Cape Verdeans and African Americans

By Miguel Vieira

FORCV Columnist

The controversy involving Eric "Billy" Gomes, a juror in the 2006 murder trial of Christopher M. McCowen, in which Gomes allegedly made racist remarks against blacks, has touched a delicate subject between Cape Verdeans and African Americans. In fact, a rather ironic opportunity has come to shed light on a very recurring and complex issue - the intra-racial perceptions and misconceptions between the two communities.

Oldest Immigrant Black Group versus Oldest Black Citizens of US

Cape Verdeans are the oldest black immigrant group in the United States - In fact, the only Africans allowed to enter the country in the 1800s according to the immigration laws of that period. They willingly come to North America as menial workers for the whaling industry some two hundred years ago. African Americans, by contrast, arrived in North America roughly two hundred years earlier under inhumane circumstances - as slaves. This historical distinction, however insignificant it may seem in the current times, played and continues to play a troubling role in the complex relationship between the two communities. Even though they both share obvious racial ties and geographical origins, there isn't a wholesome cordial and positive perceptual relationship between Cape Verdeans and African Americans. This is partly due to a small amount, but vocal, members of both groups who have apparent distrust and dislike vis-à-vis each other.

Small Minorities - Loud Voices

From the Cape Verdean angle, a small minority, yet very vocal, refuses to identify with or acknowledge their obvious shared black racial heritage with African Americans. Moreover, these folks often make disparaging remarks against American Blacks when amongst each other. Elements from this small minority of Cape Verdeans are more often than not, older, poorly educated, and have limited exposure to the complex realities of Black America. Eric "Billy" Gomes would fit in this group. He would fit in, that is, if the allegations against him are proven to be factual. Mr. Gomes is accused by his fellow jurors in the 2006 murder trial of Christopher M. McCowen of making racist remarks against blacks. He denies having made any such remarks.

However, recently Billy’s aunt, Delainda Julia Miranda, was quoted in a Boston Globe article (Link:

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as having heard him numerous times making less than flattering remarks against American Blacks. "They're lazy; they don't want to work. . . . All they do is rob people, kill them, and deal drugs.” Miranda, 74, stated in a sworn statement, that she once heard Gomes making such comments about African Americans. Needless to say such words are racist and certainly one who adheres to such views should not have been a juror in a murder trial involving an African American.

Still, however serious and racially charged these allegations are, they are only allegations. Mr. Gomes has not told his side of the story and he hasn't yet been charged with perjury. He's entitled to the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty. Nevertheless, given the media interest in the case, which has taken a national dimension, the allegations against Eric "Billy" Gomes shed light, as previously noted, on the complex relationship between Cape Verdeans and other historically black immigrants and African Americans.

The Eric "Billy" Gomes controversy brings into the media foray something that media pundits rarely care or are able to do an in-depth analysis on.

This case, however, has become an exception, given its appearance on widely reputable and nationally influential newspapers like The New York Times, The Boston Globe, and several other print media outlets across the country. As a result, people near and far from New England shores, particularly those in the Cape Verdean and African American communities are now talking about and reflecting on their perceptions vis-à-vis each other. On the Cape Verdean side, pundits have taken on this opportunity to reflect and publicly opine on the rarely discussed but nonetheless recurring issue – the inaccurate stereotypical perception that some Cape Verdeans and African Americans hold of each other.

Eric "Billy" Gomes: Symbol of Cape Verdean Stereotype

Among the stereotypes that some African Americans hold of Cape Verdeans is that they lack pride in their African heritage and harbor ill-feelings toward them. Many American reared and English Speaking Cape Verdeans are very well aware of and can attest to this ever clichéd and generalized perception of their ethnicity when they have conversations and interactions with African Americans, particularly the ones from New England. Cape Verdeans from many different walks of life complain that when they have conversations with African Americans, an imaginary presumptively guilt Eric "Billy" Gomes, is what almost always seems to come to their head when the word "Cape Verdean" pops up.

So, in essence, as of late, given The Boston Globe article (Link:

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Eric "Billy" Gomes has come to symbolize the age old stereotypical perceptions of Cape Verdeans by African Americans. The truth, however, is far more complex than a presumably guilty Eric "Billy" Gomes. That is, even if the allegations against Mr. Gomes are true, his views would only reflect those of a tiny minority of Cape Verdeans - the "old time" pre-independence colonially minded ones. These are for the most part older and poorly educated and have very little exposure to the well-to-do upper mobile African Americans who number in the millions. The so called black "under class" with its highly visible drug dealers and street hustlers is the image that for the most part these under-educated and unexposed Cape Verdeans have of African Americans. Nonetheless, these negative and limited perceptions of African Americans are not unique to Cape Verdeans by a long shot.

Memo to everybody else

There are guilty Eric "Billy" Gomes in all social groups. That is, those who have had limited education and haven't been exposed to the many different social facets of Black America hold similar views to Mr. Gomes' alleged remarks, regardless of ethnic origin.

This being said, on a final note, I and other members of the Cape Verdean community who have had to arduously shatter and disprove for the thousandth times the herein addressed stereotypical images of Cape Verdeans, would like to earnestly send a memo to the media pundits, reporters and members of the African American community: Mr. Gomes' alleged racist remarks to other jurors and others, which may certainly have impacted the verdict of Mr. McCowen murder trial, if proven to be true, would only apply to a very few and particular Cape Verdeans, not the general ones.

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

some cape-verdeans are intolerant, but I am sure that there is more african-americans who are intolerant than cape-verdea-americans.

The cv-americans don't have to identify with africa just because the afro-americans want cv to do so. Afro-americans don't rule themselves so why should they rule cv-americans.

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

Santa Anabelle, why are you such a pain in the CADEIRA? Do you fight with your shadow? Miguel can run circles around you when it comes to making sense and communicating effectively.

Miguel, You hit the nail on the head. First, I am very impressed with your writing style and it is obvious that you are very intelligent and well versed. It’s nice to see someone put what I also believe to be the reality of the situation in words. Growing up in New England I struggled for years with my identity and now as an adult I am embarrassed that I was so confused. But I was surrounded by dark skin CV folks that said they were Portuguese. Since I am a “high yella” I figured well if they aren’t Black than I certainly was not. (Didn’t help that all my friends thought my mother was white.) It wasn’t until I went to study in Lisbon that I realized that “I and many of my community were soooooooooo CONFUSED.” It was like Okie Dokie “who are the Pretos you all are talking about? We are SO not Portuguese in Lisbon. (that was in the 80’s so unless things have changed---WAKE UP CALL! ) Even though our idea of “Portuguese” wasn’t the same as the “Yumbarb’s” (spelling) in that we knew we were the Black Portuguese we just didn’t want to identify with the AA’s because of the quintessential pecking order of humanity. To AA’s it was like ”Uh, we are one notch above you all on the Ole Totem Pole.” Little did we know most of them could have cared less. They were probably like “go have another bowl of JAG, luiquica breath.”
Later as I met more and more affluent African Americans I realized that many of them looked at us like we were “some confused and non progressive black people with BAD accents”. We weren’t vacationing in Martha’s Vinyard were we? We also weren’t living in the tony suburbs of NY, NJ, Chicago, LA etc with the white collar jobs. The reality was that we as a community were so insular and clannish that we were missing the “big picture”. I am soooooo happy that the majority of the community has come a long way since the 80’s (which is my reference point).
However, I still to this day prefer to identify as a Cape Verdean when I can. And there have been times where I have felt the “guilt” when I have explained to my AA friends why I should be able to say I am a CV over AA. Doesn’t mean I am denying my African heritage. What it means is that my culture and my ancestral history are really important to me and if I do not identify with it –it gets lost. It is also a statement that I am proud that I have a direct connection to Africa (close enough) when so many do not. (Although many would state that the experience of the CV’s during the Portuguese slavery was not that much different than the African American experience in the US.) It’s just that our misery ended sooner. But there is something to be said about CV’s not sharing the “legacy of American Slavery”. That is a tough load to carry when you live in a land that enslaved your ancestors. While living in Lisbon I remember thinking –“ya know these Peeps weren’t that nice to my ancestors” and I did feel a bit second class. And I clearly remember while in high school the Azorean girl from Mass who said” Cape Verdeans are not Portuguese”. UMMMMMMMM, Excuse me, can you go tell my CV leaders this because they told me I was Portuguese. Blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

cvlinda, I truly believe ion the power of the truth...the truth is allways stronger than everything else (even good comunication).

As I try allways to tell the truth when I come in this site. This will reach you...Believe me I spent long hours thinking before having a point of view I try to go beyond the surface and unlike you I don't follow the crowd...I follow the truth

and the truth allways wins.

CV2k · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 179

St_antao wrote:

...I truly believe ion the power of the truth...the truth is always stronger than everything else (even good communication).

As I try always to tell the truth when I come in this site.
...unlike you I don't follow the crowd...I follow the truth...

Blah blah blah St_Antao! Smile

You sound like the shameless and disgraced evangelical pastor, Ted Haggard, who was supposedly "telling us the truth" while living another life behind the door. I like when you talk about "The Truth." Dude, you'd be a good preacher but unfortunately not on this forum where you have a very informed and educated audience with their eyes wide opened.

Before I go ahead and again give an "on your face" dunk on the facts about Cape Verdeans that you keep ignoring or pretending you aren't reading, let me give the more recent members of this forum a little 411 about you.

My dear forummates, please, don't pay much attention to St_Antao. He is the CV-French version of Eric "Billy" Gomes - a luny with, in the words of 2008 presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, "a bunker mentality." If you read his dozens of postings on this board, you'll notice that the guy has a radical tunnel vision perspective of things and can't go into a open-mind discussion because he's stuck in the past and his wish for Cape Verde to be come part of Portugal again. Don't give me wrong, he's well educated and informed, but unfortunately informed in a lot of bs. However, I don't blame him. This is what brainwashing does to a smart person. Your parents did a good job in planting and growing a seed of shame for the Cape Verdean people, you, Eric "Billy" Gomes II, I'm meant, St_Antao Laughing

! My only hope is that when you look in the mirror before you go to bed, honestly and deep inside, no matter what skin color you have, you go like, "Damn it! I'm really a Pretogues" (literally Blackgues), a derogatory term many Portuguese folks use to mock about Cape Verdeans and other people from Portugal's ex-African colonies. But as Dr. Phill says, it's okayyyy! We will accept you for what you are; no wait! for what you wanna be. Laughing

On a side note, this is why I go ballistic when I heard my own people in Boston referring to African Americans as Pretos Merkanus (Black Americans) as if we are not Blacks. My rage comes specifically for the fact that this is the same people that goes crazy when Portuguese people call them Preto in Portugal. What an irony! Or should I say, what a hypocrisy! Confused

Now going back to your "evangelical truth", St_Antao, below are the facts about Cape Verdeans, like it or not.

Usually the confusion about Cape Verdeans comes up when we consider skin color as the only factor to identify people. But that's inaccurate and based on racist sociological theories. Another stereotype that leads to the misunderstanding is the narrow view that many people hold that Africa is an uniformed continent made of people of dark skin color only. But if you travel through the 54 countries that assemble the continent from South to West, East, and North Africa that view will disappear instantly. But the way the media portrays Africa and one single place with same type of people and problems doesn't help dissipate that stereotype easily. So, as soon as those people see a light skin African, they panic and go like, you must be from somewhere else. That happens a lot to Cape Verdeans here in the USA, and the ones who like to be identified with Europe easily slide into the tendency to identify themselves as Portuguese.

Well, people has the freedom to call themselves whatever they want, but facts won't change because one don't want to accept them. Our ethnicity is African and more specifically Cape Verdean and our race is predominantly black varying from dark oil black (28%), to mestizo which includes light skin blacks too (71%). There are only 2 percent of Cape Verdeans with European ethnicity not origin. However, because they are from Cape Verde - an African country - or Cape Verdean ancestry, they are still Africans. If you really want to break in down into details, here are the facts:

From Africa Travel Chronicle:
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"General Information of Cape Verde
People: Creole (mulatto) 71%, African 28%, European 1%"

From the CIA Fact Book:
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"Background
The uninhabited islands were discovered and colonized by the Portuguese in the 15th century; Cape Verde subsequently became a trading center for African slaves and later an important coaling and resupply stop for whaling and transatlantic shipping....Most Cape Verdeans have both African and Portuguese antecedents.

Location
Western Africa, group of islands in the North Atlantic Ocean, west of Senegal

Ethnic groups
Creole (mulatto) 71%, African 28%, European 1%

From Wikipedia.org:
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The Republic of Cape Verde or Cape Verde is a republic located on an archipelago in the Macaronesia ecoregion of the North Atlantic Ocean, off the western coast of Africa.

Demographics
Main article: Demographics of Cape Verde

Most inhabitants of Cape Verde are mestiços, descendants of enslaved Africans and white Portuguese settlers. Mestiços’ European ancestors also include Spanish and Italian seamen who were granted land by Portuguese Empire and followed by Portuguese settlers and exiles and Portuguese Jews who were victims of the Inquisition. The remainder includes mostly black Africans or Europeans (most Portuguese left the country after independence). Many foreigners from other parts of the world settled Cape Verde as their permanent country. Most of them were Dutch, French, British (English), Arabs and Jews (from Lebanon and Morocco), Chinese (especially from Macau), Americans, and Brazilians (including people of Portuguese and African descent) settlers. All of these have been absorbed into the mestiço population.

Wikipedia.org gives a good explanation on the difference between ethnicity and race. (

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):

Ethnic group

An ethnic group or ethnicity is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry.[1] Ethnic identity often arises thanks to recognition by others as a distinct group[2] and by common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioral or biological traits.[1][3]

According to Statistics Canada, "Ethnicity is a fundamental factor in human life: it is a phenomenon inherent in human experience" despite its often malleable definitions.[3] However, according to anthropologists Frederick Barth and Eric Wolf, ethnic identities only arise under specific conditions.[4] Processes that result in the emergence of such identification are called ethnogenesis. Members of an ethnic group, on the whole, claim cultural continuities over time, although historians and cultural anthropologists have documented that many of the values, practices, and norms that imply continuity with the past are of relatively recent invention.[5]

Defining ethnicity

The sociologist Max Weber once remarked that "The whole conception of ethnic groups is so complex and so vague that it might be good to abandon it altogether."[6]

In any case, Weber proposed a definition of ethnic group that became accepted by many social scientists:

[T]hose human groups that entertain a subjective belief in their common descent because of similarities of physical type or of customs or both, or because of memories of colonization and migration; this belief must be important for group formation; furthermore it does not matter whether an objective blood relationship exists.[6]

Anthropologist Ronald Cohen, in a review of anthropological and sociological studies of ethnic groups since Weber, claimed that while many ethnic groups subjectively claimed common descent and cultural continuity, objectively there was often evidence that countered such claims.[7] Harold Isaacs has identified other diacritics (distinguishing markers) of ethnicity, among them physical appearance, name, language, history, and religion;[8] this definition has entered some dictionaries.[9] Social scientists have thus focused on how, when, and why different markers of ethnic identity become salient. Thus, anthropologist Joan Vincent observed that ethnic boundaries often have a mercurial character.[10] Ronald Cohen concluded that ethnicity is "a series of nesting dichotomizations of inclusiveness and exclusiveness".[7] He agrees with Joan Vincent's observation that (in Cohen's paraphrase) "Ethnicity ... can be narrowed or broadened in boundary terms in relation to the specific needs of political mobilization.[7] This may be why descent is sometimes a marker of ethnicity, and sometimes not: which diacritic of ethnicity is salient depends on whether people are scaling ethnic boundaries up or down, and whether they are scaling them up or down depends generally on the political situation.

Ethnicity and race

Ethnicity and race are related concepts in that both are usually defined in terms of shared genealogy.[11] Often, ethnicity also connotes shared cultural, linguistic, behavioural or religious traits. For example, to call oneself Jewish, Arab or Hispanic one immediately invokes a clutch of linguistic, religious, cultural and racial features that are held to be common within each ethnic category. Such broad ethnic categories have also been termed macroethnicity[12] to distinguish them from smaller more subjective ethnic features, often termed microethnicity.[13][14] Race, by contrast, refers to "some concentrations, as relative to frequency and distribution, of hereditary particles (genes) and physical characters, which appear, fluctuate, and often disappear in the course of time by reason of geographic and or cultural isolation." In 1950, the UNESCO statement The Race Question, signed by some of the internationally renowned scholars of the time (including Ashley Montagu, Claude Lévi-Strauss, Gunnar Myrdal, Julian Huxley, etc.), suggested that: "National, religious, geographic, linguistic and cultural groups do not necessarily coincide with racial groups: and the cultural traits of such groups have no demonstrated genetic connection with racial traits. Because serious errors of this kind are habitually committed when the term “race” is used in popular parlance, it would be better when speaking of human races to drop the term ”race” altogether and speak of 'ethnic groups'." [15]

Ethnicity in specific countries

In the United States of America, collectives of related ethnic groups are typically denoted as "ethnic". Most prominently in the U.S., the various Latin American ethnic groups plus a racial mix of the Spanish or Portuguese are typically collectivized as, depending on the part of the country you are in, either "Hispanics" or "Latinos". The many previously designated 'Oriental' ethnic groups are designated as Asian ethnic groups and similarly lumped together as "Asians". The terms "black" and "African-American," while different, usually describe the descendants whose ancestors, usually in predominant part, were indigenous to Africa. Even the racial term "White Americans" are generally peoples originally from Europe, who now live in North America. "Middle Easterners" are peoples from the Middle-East, i.e. Southwest Asia and North Africa. These countries include Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, et cetera. (The U.S. Census Bureau compiled a list of ethnic groups, which may be seen at Ethnicity (United States Census)).

In the United Kingdom, different classifications, both formal and informal, are used. Perhaps the most accepted is the National Statistics classification, identical to that used in the 2001 Census in England and Wales (see Ethnicity (United Kingdom)). In general popular use in the United Kingdom and Europe, the terms oriental and Asian are widespread and without negative connotation, with the latter term usually reserved in the United Kingdom for people from the Indian subcontinent (see British Oriental and British Asian for more details).

China officially recognizes 56 ethnic groups of which the most numerous are the Han Chinese. Many of the ethnic minorities maintain their own individual culture and language, although many are also becoming more like the Han Chinese. Some of these groups suffered during the Cultural Revolution. Han Chinese predominates most areas of China with the exception of Tibet and Xinjiang where the Han are still in the minority. The Han Chinese are the only ethnic group bound by the One-child policy. (For more details, see List of ethnic groups in China and Ethnic minorities in China.)

In France, no population census includes ethnic categories, and the government is prohibited from collecting, maintaining or using ethnic population statistics [24]. The current French government, led by Nicolas Sarkozy and François Fillon, has begun a legislative process to repeal this prohibition.

Currently, the world's most ethnically diverse city is Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

You can read more about this on this page:

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G.Silva · Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

Hey, Sintanton....once more bro, "metê rob ne meio de perna" take this links and go home for a while.

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P.S.- When we kill your stupid ideas here is because we want you to live.
"The CV forum is like a game of chess, you gotta think twice before you speak"

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

I will start again...

capeverdeans are truly portuguese people. The capeverdeans are a mix of portuguese people (mainly portuguese men) and of west-african people (mainly west african women). In average, the cv population is 50%portuguese and 50% african in its genetical background.
Although cv is genetically 50%portuguese and 50% african, the capeverdean culture and thus ethnicity is almost 100% portguese, for the simple reason that in the last 500years capeverde had mainly links with portugal and very few with africa.
Some historical facts are strikling, the fact that there is an historical convergence between the macaronesian islands which have been discovered at the same time in around 1450, which have been populated at the same time by the same population (but in different proportions), and also the same immigration to the usa started at the same time around 1800. Capeverde diverged historically and culturally with africa, and one simple example is that africa as been colonised only after 1850 while cv and other macaronesian islands have been colonised 500years ago, and this makes a big difference.

Capeverde is part of the portuguese people, this is mostly due to the two following facts, genetics (80% of cv people have portuguese origins) and ethnical (the dominant culture for the last 500years in cape verde is the portuguese culture). And this ethnical fact is for me the basis of all, it seems that even the cv who don't have portuguese origins have been absorbed into this portuguese culture and they behave as portuguese people as well

Again, I want to repeat that the AA don't have any right on telling to the cv-american with whom the cv have to identify. AA don't rule themselves, they are still under the control of the anglo-saxons, so why should they rule the cv-americans and dictate to them what they should think or to whom they should identify.Very clearly the AA are losers and if cv follow them, then the cv will become losers as well.

SO YES CV=PORTUGUESE, CV ARE A MIXED RACE PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY WITH PORTUGUESE AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO.

G.Silva · Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

Capeverdean people is a mix. We even got jew in the middle dude.
You can't browse around in this forum and search ya truth?
Blind Ma'#ucR@! Sorry peeps! This dude get's on my nerve.
Listen sintanton, im gonna propose something on you in this forum:

I propose we make a Poll wether we should take you serious or not!?

People, please vote on this one!

You remember me of a "pretuguês" i read in this forum hehehehe.

By the way, i'm sorry for you so lemme give you some food for your thought, go back to your roots and visit this blog for news about sintanton.

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St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

g.siva I had thougher contradictors than you in the past, and no matter what you tell, I will come back all the time

CV are a mix of portuguese (whites, jews and arabo-berbers) and of west africans. CV=PORTUGUSE

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

St Antao,

Look at it like this. You walk into a room which is divided by blacks on one side and whites on the other. Now you have to make a decision as to where to sit. You can’t chose the middle because there is a huge alligator, who hasn’t been fed in days sitting there. Plus he growls a sound that sounds like “Anabananahead”. Who do you think you will instinctively be drawn to sit with? And when I say instinctively-this means before your brainwashed ideas get in the way of your decision. I bet you would instinctively sit with the “colored folks” because that is who you are. Because if you chose to sit with the white folks you will realize that you are a temporary guest or the token Blackie at the dinner table. So at the end of the day most of us with any semblance of normalcy will instinctively be drawn to the “familiar warmth of those with whom we share the most in common”. And that is where you belong. So FACE THE REALITY THAT YOU ARE PIE FILLING to those with whom you so dearly align yourself - .

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

do you mean that the black side is the garbage bag? Where are put together all those refused by the whites?

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

St Antao,

Who said anything about garbage? There are no others in this game-like Asians, Lations, East Indians, etc. I was talking about you as a CV having to chose where you are going to sit. Although at this point I think you chose the middle (i hear aligators love fudge).

You know in your heart where you belong but you refuse to admit it. Why do you play this game with yourself. Be a good sport and come back to the TRIBE. My little Pretozinho.

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

personnally, with brazilians, or arabs or portuguese than sitting with AA or anglo-saxon-americans

CV2k · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 179

G.Silva wrote:

... You can't browse around in this forum and search ya truth?
Blind Ma'#ucR@! Sorry peeps! This dude get's on my nerve....

another 411 about St_Antao.
As I suggest, don't loose much of your energy with him. He is insensitive to the facts and is not here to discuss but to cause confusion. He has cleared stated that before. He has this ability to drive folks nuts with his non-sense. His strategy is to divide and conquer and he has done quite well with it. Actually, he has driven couple folks away from this forum because they could tolerate his stupidity anymore. So, He's right when he said this:

St_antao wrote:

g.siva I had tougher contradict ors than you in the past, and no matter what you tell, I will come back all the time...

He's not going away. He uses his talents in an evil way. So you don't fall victim into his trap, here is a suggestion. I usually ignore him and his comments and go on in engaging in thoughtful conversations with the open-minded users here who are willing to exchange ideas to find better alternatives for our issues. The only time I usually reply to him is when I want to piss him off Twisted Evil

, which is very hard to do. when I see that he's about to drive me to the edge, I just "drive by him" and turn my face the other other. And this has worked for me. I still have my mental sanity. Wink

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

One more time. ST AmIreallyaMoron?,

2 groups. I group is the "group with the African Americans-your brothers" and the other is the White Portuguese group. Who are you instinctively drawn to before your coitard attitude gets in the way of your decision? If you want the Brasilian and Arabs there fine-but they are the Brown and Black ones. Because Brasil and the Arab world have their own similar issues with race/color. Now remember Alberto the Alligator is sitting in the middle and he loves little CHOCOLINHOS like you. So you have to chose where you are going to sit. And remember you want to pick the group where will you will feel THE MOST welcomed.

And there are no Anglo-Saxons there plus if they were they might throw your sorry cadeira to Alberto.

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

well it all depends on what you call blacks,

if there is black and mixed race people (who are from cv and from brazil, or from south america and lets say from angola) and a group of white portuguese from portugal and brazil, I will sit with the blacks.

If there is a group of blacks (afro-americans, caraibeans and west africans), and in the other side portuguese, I will sit with the portuguese. Because I have more in common with portuguese than blacks.

If there is a group of blacks (AA) and one of whites (anglo-saxons), then for my safety, I will sit with the blacks because when it comes to non-whites the anglo-saxons almost become ferocious...

SO Portuguese first

Kakau · Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 314

cvinla wrote:

Miguel, You hit the nail on the head. First, I am very impressed with your writing style and it is obvious that you are very intelligent and well versed. It’s nice to see someone put what I also believe to be the reality of the situation in words. Growing up in New England I struggled for years with my identity and now as an adult I am embarrassed that I was so confused!

I, too, grew up and New England and, like you, I struggled with my CV identity for most of my adolescence years and early 20's. But now in my early 30's, as I reflect back on those years, I would say that, like you, I felt slightly embarrassed. I say "slightly" because it seems that my experiences, as a Cape Verdean growing up in New England, seem to have been the norm, not the exception. You see, just about all Cape Verdeans that I talk who grew up in New England since the their "teenage" years, seem to all have gone through the same identity struggles (some little, some big) and battles about the ever recurring issue of Cape Verdean cliches.

I mean, really, on a personal level, looking back, it seemed as though every single African American, that I interacted with in New England had a cliched(stereotypical) perception of Cape Verdeans. Be it at at a formal social event, at a bar, in college classrooms, it didn't matter, the tired cliches of Cape Verdeans being this and that and the other went always pooped up. So it was basically up to me as a Cape Verdean to constantly defend, disprove and lecture to them about our culture and history.
But it wasn't easy, you see, because in their minds, it seemed that the racist things that Eric "billy" Gomes allegedly said, reflected what every Cape Verdean felt. No matter how educated you are or how positively vocal you were about your blackness, the moment they found out about your Cape Verdean ethnicity, they seemed to automatically go into the cliched mode. Oh, you don't know who you are. O you think you're better than us. Oh, you think you're white <The cliches go on and on. Worse still, some of them seemed to have had an inordinate desire to ridicule Cape Verdeans, most of the time unproved. This inordinate desire to ridicule us, I now believe, was (or is) due to a lazy line of thinking that dictates that if are are a Cape Verdean, therefore, you are this (fill in the blanks with stereotypical characters, i.e. Gomes, St_antao, et cetera). End of discussion. Imagine how frustrating it would be having to argue with individuals who have this mind-set. Just imagine.

Well, such is how in retrospect I perceived the nature of the complex relationship between African Americans and Cape Verdeans in New England, when I was living there in the 1990's and early 2000's. But now that I'm getting older and more patient and wiser, and living outside of New England, my views are changing, which I would say is normal, as seems to be the case with you. Therefore, on all things considered, I would say that our respective experiences with identity, reflect a common Cape Verdean narrative. That is, the older I get and the more I read and hear about our stories, the more convinced I become that there's a "common" CV identity narrative. But having coming to this conclusion of mine doesn't mean that all that needs to be said have been said. That will never the case. There's always someone whose narrative differ significantly from yours and mine and other "common" CV identity experiences. And thanks to FORCV FORUM, those individuals have an outlet to tell their stories. So, if you're that person, write on

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

St Albertosdinner

I will say that I can understand how you reached your decision because I was once confused as you are today. Now I love Portuguese people (brother in law is Azorean) but I will have to tell you that aside from language and some cultural similarities-you have more in common with African Americans. But in your defense you wouldn't know that because you live in Europe. You obviously have a negative image due to the media and those silly rap videos. You have to remember that we CV's just were lucky enough to avoid the ships that went to America. We all know that only reason that the CV's exist today is due to the slave trade. Our experiences may be different and we have our own distinct culture, as do the Black Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Panamanian, Brazilians, etc but we all share the one common denominator- We all descend from those Africans who were once enslaved. That common denominator is far greater than a similar language and the fact that we both eat linquica.

I lived in Lisbon and I have spent a lot of time with Portuguese people who in my opinion are one of the best European groups. (I'll tell you my story about Denmark another time). But we don't have all that much in common.

Also you may not know this but many African American have mixed blood and look just like Cape Verdeans. You only see the negative on the news. There is a huge middle class and a sizeable upper class of well to do, educated and very selective individuals. So guess what ST Alberto'sdinner? They wouldn't want you to sit with them because they would think that "you were not good enough" to sit with them. They are proud to be African American just as you are proud to be PORTUGUESE.
So as you sit with the Portuguese, Jose after a few glasses of vinho would ask you "Whata ya sitting ova here for, Negrito? And then he would shove you over to the AA group but on the way Alberto would "grab your ass".

So think again.

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

maica,

I think that since 2003, you have advanced a lot in understanding the cv culture, before you where trying to be an afro-american, and to do what AA told you to do. But now you are aware of the uniqueness of cv-culture.

Cvinla, I am not confused. My observation is that normal people will gain an understanding of who they really are only after 40, and so cv start to reject strongly AA after 40, because they realise that they have been fooled for so many years on their identity.

I don't really care of what the portuguese think of me. I don't need the permission of the portuguese to exist and express my culture, if I did so this would mean that I was pretending to be a portuguese.

CV2k · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 179

St_Antao,

Super bowl is about to start and the New England Patriots are on it. It's been a great pleasure hanging out with you today but I gotta go sit in front of the TV to see history happening. Do you guys watch it in France or is it too much of America for you?! Laughing

But! From time to time, I'm going to keep taking a pick on your non-sense to see what's the next St_411 is going to be. Peace out, bro! Wink

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

no I prefer the footbal that is exclusively played with the feet, so I am watching the african cup of nations, tonight ivory coast is playing, you should watch it...

I watched rugby also, which is quite similar to american-footbal, but I don't get the rules of american-footbal...

CV2k · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 179

Dude, Super bowl is the biggest sport event in US! If I don't watch it I may run a risk of getting deported specially since the Patriots are about to make story today- A perfect season! Right now they are 18 games won and no lost. If they beat the NY York Giants today, they will make history. No team in the sport story of the world has gone an ENTIRE SEASON undefeated! Please, cheers for us. Razz

Kakau, what team are you cheering for? NE Pats or NY Giants?
Be careful how you answer this question. Very Happy

St_antao · Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 635 Location: FR

yes arsenal did it , more than one season

but I understand the superbowl looks interesting, and now they are trying to sell it in europe but as we don't understand the rule we don't watch it.

CV2k · Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 179

St_antao wrote:

yes arsenal did it , more than one season...

Nooooo! When? What year? Are you kidding me?!

St_antao wrote:

but I understand the super bowl looks interesting, and now they are trying to sell it in Europe but as we don't understand the rule we don't watch it.

You gotta to admit this: Europe is still HEAVILY dependent on US- front economy, music, fashion and sport. See what happen this week with the EU economy?! Bush said that we may be heading into the recession and everybody got in panic in the whole EU.

I used to find American football boring too until I learn the rules. It's fun sport. See guys beating each other. I don't feel bad that those guys make millions. They pay for it with their body.
As soon as you learn the rules your get into it. great sport! The Pats were went to play in England and everybody were crazy about it there. I heard the game has started catching up there. What about in the new France?

cvinla · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: los angeles

Kakau,

Well said. I totally agree.

Cv2k,

You have a great way with people.

St Antao,

There is hope for you.

I think that if we use this forum right it will be a great way place for discussion and but most of all networking.