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forcv Site Admin

Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 203
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Double Labor Standards in Cape Verde? |
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By Ulf Björnholm Ottosson  FORCV Columnist and Correspondent in Praia, Cape Verde
I am facing something of a dilemma. When I and my family came back to Cape Verde recently from a long break in our home country Sweden, one of the first thing we did was, naturally, to get acquainted with our new house guards. While I find it a bit disappointing that we need guards at all, it is something I have learned to live with. Crime is on the rise, especially in and around Praia and in the tourist areas, and we have little choice but to adapt. It is sad, but the days when Cape Verde was know as a country virtually without crime seem to be gone.
For various reasons, we decided to change guard company while we were away, and I thought it be a good idea to talk to the crew in order to get to know each other a little and to gain mutual respect. I was both surprised and disappointed of what I learned during our conversations.
First of all, there is no “crew” as such. Actually, there are only two guys, covering a 24 hour guard duty. My first reaction was that this would not be possible, that I must have misunderstood something. That would mean that they have no day off at all; they would have to work 7 days a week, 12 hours per day. But it was no misunderstanding.
Secondly, they told me that they were not entitled to any vacation.
Third, I was told that the company dos not provide any “seguros” – the national health insurance in Cape Verde. This means that they would have to pay the full costs for treatment and medication in case of illness.
For this job, they receive a salary of only 18000 Cape Verde escudos a month (about 240 USD).
To me, this could almost be called paid slavery – something I thought was banned or at least regulated by law in Cape Verde.
As a matter of fact, it is, at least in principle. I have learned that there is indeed a law on labor standards, which covers issues such as minimum wage, maximum number of hours per week and month, vacation and health care. According to this law, I am informed, the guards should normally be entitled to at least one day off per week, and they should have the right to vacation and Seguros.
It appears, however, that the law on labor standards covers only those with Cape Verdean nationality. As the two guards that work for the company that we hire are (legal) immigrants from Guinea Bissau, it seems that they are exempt from this law.
If what I have learned is correct, it is hard for me to understand why the Cape Verdean Government would exempt foreign workers from their labor standards. It appears to be both unethical and economically unwise. Is it really a good idea to attract emigrants to jobs in this way, when Cape Verde is struggling with a 24% unemployment rate? I should think not, but maybe I am not aware of the full picture.
So what is my dilemma anyway? I have 24 hour guard duty, so why am I not happy?
Well, on the one hand I don’t think that the guard company’s employment policy is acceptable. It is inhumane to force workers to 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, without any vacation and without supporting any form of heath care, and I believe that it is highly inappropriate that the company does not to meet Cape Verdean labor standards (even if they, as it appears, are not obliged to by law). I don’t want to be part of that!
My gut feeling is therefore to terminate the contract with the current guard company and hire another one which – as a minimum – follows Cape Verdean labor standards.
On the other hand, I don’t want to put the two guards on the street, making their life even more difficult than it currently is. Like many other migrant workers round the world, they have been forced to leave their home country and their family and friends to try to make a better living in another country. It is quite possible that they will loose their job if we discontinue our contract with the guard company. Maybe they prefer to accept the harsh terms offered by the company, knowing that the option – to be unemployed and/or having to go back to Guinea Bissau – is much worse.
I also have to acknowledge that I am myself a culprit in this whole story, even if I was unaware of the guard’s poor working conditions until recently. One of the reasons that we chose to opt for another guard company in the first place was, naturally, that it was cheaper. Obviously it was cheaper for a reason – and the guards are paying, through inadequate labor rights.
After reflecting further, I realize that it cannot be justified to take advantage of this situation, and (provided that the information I have is correct; I hope not) consequently the contract should be discontinued. Even if it means that it might create difficulties for the two guards in case they will not be relocated to different guard duty within the company. Also – and this is important – I need to let everybody involved know why the guard service is terminated. Hopefully we could thereby contribute to improving immigrant worker’s rights in Cape Verde.
The issue at hand is in some ways similar to the debate on child labor. Most people would agree, I think, that we need to boycott child labor products and services, even if it would mean that some children are put on the street under even worse conditions. The long term negative effects of encouraging an unjust system are worse than short term consequences.
Issues like labor rights and child labor are not easy to deal with. In both cases, however, I believe that the best thing to do is to stop supporting an unfair system, and let as many as possible know about the injustice. Regarding our guard service, I will take action to that end. |
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cabrala
Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 65
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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That is a great dilemma to you, of course. it wouldn't be to me if I were in your place. But, I have to say that this kind of labor condition is no worse than many other countries like America and other Developed countries. Of course the employed people that will go obviously to the streets would rather stay employed. Other than that, why do you think it is cheaper to produce in China and India than in Europe and America? It is the sad reality of many countries.
If these that you mentioned are the only reasons for termination of contract, I would keep these poor bastards employed while fighting the system on the other end.
Cabrala |
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Uffe
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 32 Location: Praia, Cape Verde
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Cabrala,
I don't understand is why it would not be a dilema for you? Would you feel comfortable with taking advantage a situation like this to save a few bucks? If so, I guess we are very different, you and I.
Also, I don't agree that working conditions as described above are common in developed countries (unless you are talking about illegal employment, or people who voluntarily have chosen to work at two or more different workplaces at the same time). Developed countries, including the US, have countless labor laws in place to protect workers from these kind of unjust conditions. In many countries there are also strong unions to protect worker's rights. For good reasons.
Even if it were true, I would not find it a good argument to accept it just because it happens elsewhere in the world. It is like saying "It's OK to steal this car, because cars are being stolen all the time". We all have a personal responsibility for our own actions; one wrongdoing should not be justified by another.
Nevertheless, I tend to agree that I should try to keep the "poor bastards" as you call them, if possible. My impression is that they are descent people and I would really prefer not to put them on the street. After making sure that the guards themselves agree, I have therefore already been in touch with the guard company and told them that I want to renegotiate the contract so to make sure that the guards will have at least one day off a week and that they will not work more than maximum 10 hours in a row - while keeping their salary unchanged.
This will, of course, mean that I will have to pay more - or decrease the guard duty (it will probably have to be both). So be it - it is the price I have to pay for doing the right thing and regaining a better conscience. |
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CV2k

Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 112
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I see both sides of the argument here but I am on the same page with Ulf on this.
It’s true that according to cabrala, the pressure of development and the supply-and-demand capitalism push a labor market into rough conditions sometimes. And this is what’s happening with the rapid progress in Cape Verde. However, mistreating workers or as Ulf calls it “paid slavery” on the cost of profits or development is unacceptable. Both native and immigrant workers deserve the same working conditions under same working laws. So, if someone is to blame for this situation, it should is the legislative branch of our government that made such a stupid law. Why wouldn’t Cape Verde grant the same working rights it offers to its nationals to its legal immigrants?
As a country of immigrants – yes, a country that has more people living in the Diaspora that in its land; a country that strongly depend of the remittance of immigrants-, Cape Verde and its government have a moral obligation to treat other immigrants fairly. Here applies the golden rule, “treat others as you would like to be treated.” As a Cape Verdean immigrant, I feel ashamed of my country to pass discriminatory labor laws that open doors for “paid slavery.”
If this is not sinking, let’s take a moment, reverse the roles and put ourselves on the shoes of those immigrants from Guinea mentioned on the posting above. Let’s consider ourselves – legal immigrants living in the US. How would you react if this country approves a law that says: “our immigrant workers are not entitled to the labor laws that regulate how companies should treat our citizens”? I would be the first one to cry foul and so would most immigrants. So, why should we condone that behavior when our country does it? |
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salah Mateus
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 372
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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is a matter of time,and all of it will be corrected.
There are so many things going on and we have yet to catch up.
Not easy for a new Republic,we are up to our arm pits in paper work.
We know that all things are not what they should be,and to make comparison with any western country is not fair.
I am sure if we look at some of the discrepancies in Europe or the USA we can find many things to complain about or any of the developed countries. Has any one looked at the health care system in the USA compared to that in Europe and how many millions of US citizens don't have health care;riches and most advance country in the world so they say. It is true we have many things to fix and too make better in Cabo Verde;I say for now suck it up or go to another country that is better.
The indigenous people have other problems,like jobs,food,clothing and shelter and medicine and all the crime and courts and judicial administration;it is not so easy,we are trying. It was not fair that folk suffered 500 years and we are now trying our best to deal with all that was wrong and is still wrong.
I have lived in many 3rd world countries and for sure we have many problems to overcome. I get pissed off when I can't find toliet paper.
How about when your water gets caught off in the middle of your shower or the electric goes off when you are doing something important.
Discontent I am sure is not what we want. I apologize.
Manu Salah |
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Uffe
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 32 Location: Praia, Cape Verde
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Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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No need for apologies. And no need to be too defensive either. I think you are right - it will surely be corrected within time. And maybe it is unfair to compare developing countries with industrialized. Still - Cape Verde is developing very quickly now (it has just "graduated", as you surely know, from the group of Least Developed Countries, and is formally now considered a middle income country). The money and know-how to deal with these kind of problems, are here already and the argument that CV is a new nation and that it used to be very poor cannot hold forever. Which is a good thing!
Of course no country is perfect. But labor standards are very basic, they are a corner stone for any civilized society. More important than toilet paper and 24h water and energy access. I consider Cape Verde to be advanced enough to have the capacity to deal with problems such as this one. The law is already there; it just has to be fully applied so that it protects also immigrant workers. The sooner, the better. |
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salah Mateus
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 372
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: It's All Compared to what? |
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| Uffe wrote: | No need for apologies. And no need to be too defensive either. I think you are right - it will surely be corrected within time. And maybe it is unfair to compare developing countries with industrialized. Still - Cape Verde is developing very quickly now (it has just "graduated", as you surely know, from the group of Least Developed Countries, and is formally now considered a middle income country). The money and know-how to deal with these kind of problems, are here already and the argument that CV is a new nation and that it used to be very poor cannot hold forever. Which is a good thing!
Of course no country is perfect. But labor standards are very basic, they are a corner stone for any civilized society. More important than toilet paper and 24h water and energy access. I consider Cape Verde to be advanced enough to have the capacity to deal with problems such as this one. The law is already there; it just has to be fully applied so that it protects also immigrant workers. The sooner, the better. |
I don't like the idea of saying that Cabo verde has graduated that is very tricky,CaboVerde does a good job in management but we are still no better off in terme of raw materials or resources. We are having a difficult job trying to balance. Cabo verde on the other hand is different then the main land Africa. Plus we have many folk in other countries who are of great help. But we can't judge a book by its cover. Labor standards are basic but how much labor do we have for the people,how long has Cabo verde been at this government business;31 years. Yes I do defend our nation too many folk who are not in the living reality don't see the real picture but from rose colored glasses. The poor can't leave but those with money can,I support the grass roots and most of the places don't have grass.. In terms of immigrants that seems to be a problem in many countries,the USA has such a problem and so does Europe. Cabo Verde is haveing problems taking care of there own. I think we should be very selective when it comes to immigrants. Saying Cabo Verde is now middle Class by who's standards? Cabo verde is still very poor when you talk about the overall population. Just because we got some new roads and a few middle so called class people that is not the reality of Cabo Verde.
Ask the very poor who lve in stone or even grass huts or don't have shoes or the best of health treatment,yes we are making progress and that is good but I would not get to far ahead of the game. Let us not forget the haves and the haves nots. You have made a contribution in a small way you help a family to build a house but we need to know the difference of the facts. Some so-called Cabo Verdeans would not settle for that kind of house. To know what poverty is don't ask those who have?
Manu Salah |
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Uffe
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 32 Location: Praia, Cape Verde
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Just to clarify: the graduation from the status of the catagory of Least Developed Countries (some 50 countries in the wold) to another category - Middle Income Countries - is not something I made up. It is a formal UN process, with full participation from the CV government, based on a number recognized criteria that are being valued. See, for instance Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! | to learn more.
The graduation has formally taken effect just recently (1 January 2008). CV is only the second country in the world who has been successful enough to make this graduation (the first being Botswana). And again: this is a good thing, it is something to be proud of. It means that CV has developed, that the economy is growing, that the health situation has improved, that school attendance is up, that people live longer... And also, in essence, that the government's policy is working.
Some basic figures which lie behind the graduation: CV economic growth has averaged 5.6% in real terms during 2001-2006. Inflation is low. The mortality rate has decreased from 43.6 per thousand in 1995 to 20.2 per thousand in 2005! The mortality of under five-year-olds decreased from 56 per thousand in 1993 to 22.6 per thousand in 2005! Access to drinking water rose from 42% in 1990 to 85% in 2006!
These are real figures of progress, and they should be celebrated.
I don't disagree with you that conditions for the poor need to be further improved. What I am saying is that labor standards are very important to do exactly this - there is no contradiction here. On the contrary. I also say that those standards should cover everybody employed, not just Cape Verdeans. It is just as tough to be poor if you are an immigrant as if you are a resident (or, in fact, probably even tougher, because you are far away from your family). |
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salah Mateus
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 372
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Uffe wrote: | Just to clarify: the graduation from the status of the catagory of Least Developed Countries (some 50 countries in the wold) to another category - Middle Income Countries - is not something I made up. It is a formal UN process, with full participation from the CV government, based on a number recognized criteria that are being valued. See, for instance
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
to learn more.
The graduation has formally taken effect just recently (1 January 2008). CV is only the second country in the world who has been successful enough to make this graduation (the first being Botswana). And again: this is a good thing, it is something to be proud of. It means that CV has developed, that the economy is growing, that the health situation has improved, that school attendance is up, that people live longer... And also, in essence, that the government's policy is working.
Some basic figures which lie behind the graduation: CV economic growth has averaged 5.6% in real terms during 2001-2006. Inflation is low. The mortality rate has decreased from 43.6 per thousand in 1995 to 20.2 per thousand in 2005! The mortality of under five-year-olds decreased from 56 per thousand in 1993 to 22.6 per thousand in 2005! Access to drinking water rose from 42% in 1990 to 85% in 2006!
These are real figures of progress, and they should be celebrated.
I don't disagree with you that conditions for the poor need to be further improved. What I am saying is that labor standards are very important to do exactly this - there is no contradiction here. On the contrary. I also say that those standards should cover everybody employed, not just Cape Verdeans. It is just as tough to be poor if you are an immigrant as if you are a resident (or, in fact, probably even tougher, because you are far away from your family). |
Thank you i appreciate your comments and your concern. I do celebrate our progress and I am very proud of what the present government is doing.
I would like to know what does everybody employed mean?
The condition for the poor need to be improved all over the world.
Perhaps you can help me to understand how capitalism or socialism works in C.V.?  |
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cabrala
Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 65
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Uffe. You are doing exactly right!
We think the same. We are both fighting the same evil with different strategies. I guess we only have different feelings and perceptions about what is happening.
One thing I know for sure, Cape Verdean government would never make a law that discriminate immigrant. Not so much because the politicians are too good but because one of the biggest asset Cape Verdean government has is its image internationally, which many other countries don't bother to care. Every politician is aware of that.
I can assure you that the Cape Verdean constitution is one of the most modern in the world. That doesn't mean, though, that the practices are among the best in the world. Practices are one other page of the process.
I do not live right now in Cape Verde, but I know that companies will try to survive and make money by offering jobs under certain standards and people take these jobs because the options are not many out there. When you say this kind of things do not happen in Developed Countries, I laugh because that is a practice in many companies where Cape Verdeans and other immigrants work here in US.
Legal or illegal immigrants, that is not the point. The point is to practice legal or fair working conditions within the boundaries of your territory. In the case of Cape Verde, what I think is that not everything is regulated yet. There is probably a law that observe labor relation employer/employee but control is almost non-existent and unless you complain to the right authority, nothing is going to take effect, which is the same in other places.
One other thing that I will ask you to do is to ask how much do a Chinese investor in Cabo Verde pay their employees. Yet, they receive a lot of credits for being "Foreign Investment" and welcomed by the government.
You are doing the right thing because while you will not penalize the individuals that are looking for a way to live, you are demanding that companies that represent those workers change their practices. As far as Health Care protection, that is not commonly heard of in small companies in Cabo Verde, with the exception of bigger Government companies. This is going to take a while for the country to get to that level - health care coverage for everybody. If you ask me, does this things happen in US? the answer is yes they happen everyday, but the number of people that work under these circumstances are less than Cabo Verde. No surprise.
We are all fighting social injustice with different perception. But you have something to do right now. Please do your part.
Thank you
Cabrala |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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uffee, is looking at the cv situation trough the swedish-glasses, and this si bringing some distorsions in the understanding. It is not possible to apply swedish stardards to cape-verde.
I can give you an example that I heard some couple of years ago. It concerned portuguese immigrants who were working in the UK,brought to the UK by an employer in order to pick up fruits in the fields. They were paid below the minimum salary, they were living at 5 in a small room, and the most AMAZING, they were not complaining because they have been told by their employer that they were illigal immigrants and if they complained they will be expulsed from the UK...but a portuguese as a EU citizen cannot be an illigal in another EU state.
But Uffee it is more easy to see what is hapenning in your neighbours house than yours.
I think that capeverde is outperforming sweden in terms of potential in a lot of domains and in the next 20 years capeverde will be as rich as any west-european country + the sun. |
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Uffe
Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 32 Location: Praia, Cape Verde
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I hope you are right, St Antao. Time will tell.
But I don't get it - one the one hand you say that CV will soon have Western economic standards, on the other you say that Western (or Swedish) labor standards cannot be applied here. This makes little sense to me. Also - what people do illegally in other countries (such as the UK in the example above) is beside the point here. What I am talking about is the importance of a legal foundation: basic labor rights established by law. Of course I am aware that such laws, where they exist, are sometimes broken, both in the so called Western world and elsewhere. But that is another discussion.
Moreover - I am, in fact, not suggesting to apply Swedish standards in Cape Verde. That would be arrogant. I am talking about basic labor rights. Such rights are not Swedish, but universal, laid down e.g. by the International Labor Organization, ILO. And I am absolutely positive that Cape Verde is advanced enough to apply them - to think otherwise would in my view be an insult to the Cape Verdean government. And here I agree with Cabrala - it is unlikely that the government would deliberately make a law that discriminate immigrants in CV; the situation I am addressing is probably due to a flaw or a mistake somewhere in the system.
Regardless our academic discussion here, working conditions are about to improve for the guards. The contract has been renegotiated so as to make sure that they work only 8 hours per day, with a shift in night- and day-duty every other week and the right to paid holiday leave. As a result, the workload will decrease from crazy 84 hours a week to some 48 hours (not counting holidays), whereas their new salary will be only 10% less than today. After consulting with the guards themselves, I let them decide whether they wanted a day off per week (with a slightly lower salary) or not. As it turned out, they opted to work Sundays with the higher pay. Since it is their own free choice, and it is not regulated by law, I will honor that wish. Overall, they seem to be very happy with the new agreement.
For this I will have pay more per hour, and have less guard service. But my conscience, for what it is worth, is way better of.
But my main point is that this kind of decision should really not be up to individuals like me, because too many unscrupulous people would undoubtedly take advantage of that, resulting in inhuman labor conditions. Such matters must be firmly and effectively regulated by law. |
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Lu di Dulce
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 214
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Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: |
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This goes beyond common sense. how can we sit here and condone the exploitation of our Guinean (or anybody else for that matter) brothers, in the sacrosanct name of: the others do it too.
It is repulsive, it is repugnant and ought to be denounced, and I loudly applaud Ulf for doing so.
We should all remember that we, Capeverdeans are the product of slavery and fight any injustice in front of us. Instead, we let foreigners (sorry Ulf, even though you might feel as CV as any of us, and in some case more than most of us, this is the perception we get when reading your post) do what we DO NOT WANT to do.
After all these guys are just Guineans, manjacos, why bother? Isn't it? To try to justify the unjustifiable is just plain aberration. It does NOT MAKE SENSE for us to start (or keep) violating basic human rights. If there's a law protecting the citizens of CV it should be applied to ANY and ALL.
Again I'm appalled by the lack of sensitivity shown by some of us and I wish we could take some time and think of how we would react if WE were in the same situation, before posting our comments. |
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G.Silva
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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First of all i wanna say that Ulf's post made me register myself in this forum, just so when another "not human" person, like you St. Antão, come in here talking trash i can come in an say a few words that will remind them to come back to earth.
I live in CV for 25 years now (my whole life) and i know what's going on here. I say that as a capeverdean and as a journalist from a national radiostation where all kind of news pass through. I have to say that i got to know the conditions some people work in my country(capeverdeans and foreigners) in a newspaper and was sad to see what we can do to our fellow brothers.
Ulf is right for what he is standing for, and people like you "S.Antão", who looks like is coming from a humble family of the island you named yaself after, should know better.
I think all the things and examples i could satte here would not be as proper and quick to get as just saying "slavery is a crime according to the CV laws." And that situation is nothing but pure slavery. Or you still think the opposite "santantonense"!?
| Quote: | think that capeverde is outperforming sweden in terms of potential in a lot of domains and in the next 20 years capeverde will be as rich as any west-european country + the sun.
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Dude you clearly don't live in the same country i am right now in this moment i write this. You might be believeing statistics and that might be watering your head. I can understand if u are away from here (i can say that by the "~" missing in your keyborad for the "St_Antão"). Or, was born overseas as a son of CV imigrants.
But, i wouldn't tolerate your attitude toward this if i know you step these same soil under the same "Sun" i do. We can never be rich with people thinking like you.
Men's best wealth is his culture and his freedom. Slavery contradicts that idea. I don't wanna be a rich guy off the backs of a humble fellow guinean doing what they did to my ancestors back in the days.
Shame on you "Sintanton". Part of my family reminisces from
Santo Antão and is a shame to me that you use that name to post shizzles in a place, where we should be looking for a brighter future for CV and the world.
Hit me back son! But this time think twice, or read more. I'm watching!
ULF,reject the company's service....i support you!
Thank you for making the difference in my country.
P.S - "St_Antao", the sun is not shinning in CV for days now....remember the climate is changing. Pray to God that "good thinkers" like you remind of being more human and think more about the world and it's people instead of filty bank accounts. Just that way you will have your CV sun forever. Read this newspapers and sites everyday to keep up to date son:
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! | (can check the climate here..hehehehe) |
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Lu di Dulce
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 214
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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G. Silva, well said. Santo Antão, maybe you should, as this gentleman said, come back to earth, or as you'd say in French, descends de ta lune. Peut-être devrais-je continuer en Français. Vois-tu, je crois que tu te laisses un peu trop influencer (quel doux euphemisme) par la fameuse "integration" Française, ou tu te dois d'abandonner ta culture et mode de vie afin de faire comme les Gaulois, ce faisant tu oublies qui tu es.
Il n'est pas impossible d'épouser une nouvelle culture tout en conservant celle qui t'a permis d'être la personne que tu es devenue. En d'autres termes, a moins que tu aies une vision VRAIMENT étroite, tu devrais être capable, comme 99.9% des CV, de conjuguer le verbe être a la première personne du singulier, en quelque langue que ce soit sans te sentir coupable envers ta ou tes cultures.
Refléchis a cela. |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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that's very funny, to read all this, because by any country standards, I am sure that I would be the more social-democrat (liberal in the usa) of all the people coming in this site, I would even tell, that at this stage I am at the limit between social-democrats and communist>
Furthermore, I know what to be an immigrant means as I have live in several european countries as I had to study abroad and also I worked abroad from france.
I heard that cv people where treating badly west-africans, this is something that makes me sad because I grew up alongside senegalese, ivorians, guineans...and other africans in Paris. My best friend for so many years was an ivorian. I grew up in a very diverse environment.
Then based on my experience I can tell that a lot of ''wolfs'' (or sharks if you prefer) hide behind in the forest. They pretend to be tolerant and welcoming and indeed they are not. Just look at Uffe, everytime he blogs is to tell somethimg bad about capeverde. |
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Lu di Dulce
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 214
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Then based on my experience I can tell that a lot of ''wolfs'' (or sharks if you prefer) hide behind in the forest. They pretend to be tolerant and welcoming and indeed they are not. Just look at Uffe, everytime he blogs is to tell somethimg bad about capeverde. | [/quote]
When telling the truth became a bad thing? Should we close our eyes and pretend that everything is fine? He's merely pointing out a few facts known by all of us. Or maybe is it the fact that Ulf is Swedish, therefore according to your criteria he should not tell his side of the story?
Man, I would have thought that living in Paris, tolerance would be your "prato de cada dia". Unless you are some kind of weird Lepéniste. See, dialogue will allow the betterment of CV. Intolerance should be left to the PIDE of yesteryear.
Quant a Paris, bien le bonjour aux belles gauloises (n'oublions pas ces demoiselles de Navarre). |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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dulce,
I spent the first part of my life hearing bad, negative comments about capeverde, and as I grew up, when people where asking me about cv I was just repeating these stupid negative comments. But now I realise that all these where not true cv is a great place that deserves to be praised, it has never been as poor as people pretend, it has never been a place without interest...
Concerning Uffe, I am sure that he is confused, the cv law will not discriminate between workers and their salary according to their origins. I gave him very good example of EU citizens being treated unfairly in another EU country by other EU citizens.
Concerning discriminations, most of the EU countries provide jobs only if you are a EU citizen, if you are not a EU citizen, you don't have the right to apply to the jobs (this is the case in the UK).
My point is that there is so many good things happening in capeverde that can be the topic of a blog...but people allways pick the bad side and then spread a bad image of the country...I believe in the bright future of capeverde |
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G.Silva
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Sintaton (or Sto. Antão, whatever) "t'es ridicule!"
Dude, Ulf could just pay the dam money to the company and not give a damn about a f#$%ing "n****a" (sorry for the n-word people) guarding his backyard, but he didn't.
You are the wolf, because if you had a chance to be European like him, you would let that poor african in the situation and not give a damn.
You can deny but whoever read your comments here see it clearly.
| Quote: | I spent the first part of my life hearing bad, negative comments about capeverde, and as I grew up, when people where asking me about cv I was just repeating these stupid negative comments. But now I realise that all these where not true cv is a great place that deserves to be praised, it has never been as poor as people pretend, it has never been a place without interest...
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It is not our f#$%ing problem that you parents didn't tell you the truth about their country, you had to learn it from others and grow up as a complete ignorant and away from your roots. By the way, Ulf's child will be more Cape Verdean then you in some years. Feel ashamed. CV is not poor in spirit dude, we are a strong people but we lack of natural resources here. Or you think we got oil (petroleo) under our floor. Maybe, who knows, not you, not me. No wonder we live with the palm of our hands up. BEGGING. And that's because of people like you that say we have wealth as a reason to not search solutions.
This is what we are doing here in this forum. Dude if i was rich i would pay you a trip here so you could come and see it by your own eyes, because i think you have an imaginary vision of CV. I am not saying it is all bad, but the bad things must be said so we can make it better.
What Ulf said here, was written os newspapers and broadcast ed through CV medias, but of course you don't know. Your only source of information is this forum, i mean us, i think. It looks like that.
If that's the case, i send you the links again, and again if necessary.
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
Read and Give us a break dude! |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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G.Silva,
the only thing I dream about is a f#$%ing r*****tion (yes, a revolution to take what is ours) the wolfs have to be scared now because we don't collaborate anymore with them. |
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G.Silva
Joined: 26 Jan 2008 Posts: 51
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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As long as you not the leader of that Revolution i'm ok with it. I don't get along with your ideals. You are right, wolves like you, deserve no pack.
Now pack yours stuffs and go write your racist, segregation thoughts elsewhere. The revolution won't be on the net dude. Go out there and start killing caucasians, ohhh, wait, i think you would kill black because you consider yourself "Pretoguês"!
Gimme a break man! Grow up and Show up! |
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CV2k

Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 112
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| G.Silva wrote: | | As long as you not the leader of that Revolution i'm ok with it.... |
Ahahahahah! Ahahahahah I love that line! I can't stop laughing. Ahahahahah
You're right, the day St_Antao takes the leadership of whatever heck revolution he's talking about, I'm on the run. This guy sounds like another maniac Adolf Hitler and thanks God he's not even close of any position of power or nuclear arms because Africa would be blown up in a second if he takes that control of that seat.
Santantas, for God sake, can you change your username and stop embarrassing publicly the good people of the island of Santo Antao?
I can't wait to hear the news about the day you go back there. |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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anyway, the people I fight are very happy to have pupets like you, isn't you who where praising sarkoy?
Concerning the discrimination in cape-verde, it is a fact that a lot of capeverdeans don't like the west-africans that they call the mandjacos. Why do they do that? |
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Lu di Dulce
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 214
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| St_antao wrote: | anyway, the people I fight are very happy to have pupets like you, isn't you who where praising sarkoy?
Concerning the discrimination in cape-verde, it is a fact that a lot of capeverdeans don't like the west-africans that they call the mandjacos. Why do they do that? |
I hope you're not talking about me. Never praised Sarko, never will. I've known Sarko from the day he stepped in the public eye, and always knew how bad he was/is. I have posted a few times on Bakchich & Rue89 against Nicolas 1er, so... Check Mamadou Degol.
Now, on to the people you "fight". How are you fighting them? When was the last time you BOLDLY told them face to face about your disagreements with their policies? What contributions to the causes you seem to have espoused, did you make? Avoir une grande gueule, c'est bien. Agir serait mieux.
If you want to start something beneficial to the country, I'm with you, but if the only thing you want to do is throw unsubstanciated personal attacks on people you feel should not talk because they were not born in CV, then I'll tell you this: maybe Ulf is more Capeverdean than you'll ever be. He's raising a VERY legitimate question, a humane question and we need more people like him to bring those questions to the forefront, so that they can be corrected. Therefore Ulf is contributing to the advancement of our society. Again, are you?
The mandjacos you're talking about, I've been defending my brothers from the continent against the ignorance and stupidity of my own CV people. Now you're attacking Ulf, and in a coded way, sournoisement, you're implying that he should just shut up. Man that just goes to show the different degrees of racism. We refer to the Blacks as mandjacos, with disdain and condescendence while the White gets a different kind of xenophobia: he's not one of us, why does he keep talking?
I see that you still have the Portuguese demons deep inside you. C'mon kid, the guys, black or white, live there, they pay taxes, they contribute to the betterment of our country. They should feel free to speak up against things they feel aren't right. Don't you do the same in France? I did. But neither of us were born there. I criticized Mitterand and now Sarko and am sure you do to. Should a native French tell you to shut up? Would you accept that without "réchigner"?
Have you ever heard of May 68? If you know anything about France you'll understand
St Antão, petit frère, you seem to live in a fantasy world when it comes to CV. We, responsible adults, who have brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, cousins and friends in CV, are aware of what's really going on in the country, so maybe for once, just this one time, take off your PINK GLASSES and look around you. See what we're talking about?
Welcome to the REAL WORLD. Et à propos, je crois, encore une fois que "l'intégration" te ronge la matière grise. Il ne m'éttonerait nulement d'apprendre que tu supportes "la politique de la civilisation".
Thanks Ulf, keep up the good work on behalf of us all. |
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St_antao
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 334 Location: FR
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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dulce,
there is just 50% of the population in france who is "French", the other 50% is italian, spanish, portuguese, polish, belgian, german, algerian, marocan, tunisian, senegalese, ivorian, congolese, vietnamian and chinese...and all the possible mixes.
In the other side
I don't fundamentaly disagree with UFFE, He is raising good points. But out of 5 topics that I have read in his blog, they are all pointing out at negative points of the cv. This sounds strange to me. Why there is only negative points about capeverde? Why he didn't at leats make one topic where he talks about something nice about capeverde. Does he think that there is something good in capeverde that w | | |