The People's Voice | Vos Di Povu Forum Index The People's Voice | Vos Di Povu

www.forcv.com


 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Create your own forum on ForumUp.org, It's free, powerful, and fast! :-)
Kasu Bodi: Reflections on a vile criminal phenomenon

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The People's Voice | Vos Di Povu Forum Index -> Our Issues - Nossos Desafios
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Kasu Bodi: Reflections on a vile criminal phenomenon Reply with quote


Link:http://forcv.com/index.php?idvar=8

If there's any threatening criminal trend that's potentially destructive to the tradional morabeza culture or peaceful nature of the Cape Verde and Cape Verdeans, it is the Kasu bodi criminal phenomenon. Kasu bodi, which is really a mispronunciation of "cash or body" is an act of armed robbery. Petty young muggers, and others not so petty or young, in Cape Verde, have been targeting well-to-do Cape Verdeans and foreigners and robbing them and sometimes raping them should they have no cash with them, hence explaining the etimology of the "Kasu bodi" term. There have been several highly publisized cases of kasu bodi in the Cape Verden media in the last several years in Cape Verde. Even the term itself, "Kasu Bodi", has now become sort of an ominous term in the vocabulary of Cape Verdeans. And there's a general fear of becoming a victim of Kasu bodi, by average Cape Verdeans, too.

Moreover, some cases of kasu bodi have turned into homicides. The recent murder of a Cape Verdean french teacher by kasubodistas is a case in point. And there have been other cases of kasu bodi-act-turned-homicide that have not been resolved yet, too. Worse, the murderers for such cases have yet to be charged or apprehended. The families of the victims want justice. Justice hasn't been served. Worse still, the very image of Cape Verde is under attack because of this vile criminal trend called kasu bodi.

An imported criminal trend

Kasu bodi is a criminal trend that as its name implies, is imported from the first world, particularly the United States. Crime has existed, arguably, since time immemorial. Likewise, punishement for acts of crime, has existed since the beginning of time, it is called the penitentiary system. Cabo Verde has a "soft" penitentiary system. One would wonder if this "soft" system isn't enough of a deterant to crime? In the paragraphs to follow, there will more analysis on the correlation between penal code and crime deterance. So read on!

In any event, as the kasu bodi criminal phenomenon is certainly an imported trend that some impressionable Cape Verdean youths have foolishly decided to emulate, the consequence, therefore, for such acts should likewise mirror those of the first world, that is, a mugger or a group of muggers who decide to rob and rape should face the same consequence such individuals would face in the United States - hard time in the penetenciary. A crime is a crime is a crime.

Nonetheless, a critic might argue that Cape Verde doesn't have the resources to incarcerate a criminal for a long period of time. Granted, such argument might make sense; however, something significant needs to be done, lest the morabeza image of Cape Verde be tarnished which in turn would even affect the economy of Cape Verde. After all, who would argue that a potential tourist or an investor would not have reservations about vacationing or investing in country that is perceived as being violent and unsafe? Such is the gravity of the Kasu bodi phenomenon. It has the potential to impact the entire nation. So there is undoubtely an urgent need to address and cure this societal problem.

A societal problem

Kasu bodi is a societal problem because the impressionable youths who engage in acts of robbery which sometimes end up being homicides, are rejected by society at large. Examples to such reasoning would be the deportees from the United States. One would have to commit significant amounts of crimes to be deporteed from the United States. There is rarely a Cape Verdean deportaion case that is non-criminal. The very act of deporting someone to his or her country of origin is an act of rejection. So a Cape Verdean deportee from Boston or Providence or Brockton is essencially a societal reject from America, a reject nonetheless who exerts significant influence over the youths of Cape Verde. The very terminology of Kasu Bodi, a mispronunciation of "cash or body" is an indication to the extent to which a Cape Verdean youth will emulate, however foolishly, the criminal acts of U.S deportees.

To the not so bright and impressionable Cape Verdean youth who's never been outside of Cape Verde, a deportado from the U.S. is sort of a role model. Observers in Cape Verde note that the local Cape Verdean youths emulate, that is, copy, the style, the posture, the clothing attire, and even the thinking pattern of deportees from the U.S. However pathetic and unreal this decision may seem to you, the reader, it is real. Impressionable youths make really unwise decisions sometimes.

A need to emulate the U.S. penal code

In any case, all things considered, justice officials in Cape Verde need to urgently address the kasu bodi problem. If they have to change the entire penal code of Cape Verde so as to give culprits longer prison sentences, so be it, for the current "soft" penal code of Cape Verde isn't enough of a crime deterant. For example, a mugger who robs and kills someone in the U.S. would get no less than 30 years in a state or federal penetenciary. In Cape Verde, by contrast, such criminal would get less than 5 years for an armed robbery. This is not only a "soft" system, but an injustice to the victims and their families. So, in a sense, the Cape Verdean justice officials ought to do their own version of emulation, that is, they should copy and implement the U.S. penal code in their sentencing guidelines. Such guidelines should include hard-labor for convicted criminals.

Alternatives to a long prison sentence

At a different note and token, or rather alternative, if these impressionable and troubled youths have to be counseled by psychologists, and role modeled by influencial celebrities such as positive rappers (whom they look up) and better educated as a whole, so as to allow them to make better choices and become better citizens, that would be an even better approach. After all, it is not written anywhere nor is it tacitly implied that to be "cool" is to be a criminal. This would lead one to suggest that maybe "cool" and law abiding rappers such a D Lopes and others ought to exert their influence more forecebly over the Cape Verdean youths, who by the way, are increasingly becoming more and more fond of Hip Hop.

More importantly, If D Lopes and other popular and influencial CV rappers were to hypothetically address the youths in Cape Verde and suggest to them that it's cool to stay in school and get good grades and respect the law and be upstanding citizens, who's to say that such an approach wouldn't have a very positive impact in the long run? The only way to find out it's for the said rappers to capitalize on their influence and make a greater impact and ultimately help stop the wheels of destruction that were set in motion several years ago by way of the kasu bodi phenomenon.



Last edited by Kakau on Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:42 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
konsienti



Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You bring a valid point when you say that Hip Hop is influential in this matter. We constantly degrade or complain about the culture but it is definately a language that we need to speak in order to adress certain issues with the Youth.

Dlopes is doing something about it amongst other cv rappers. Go in the front page and read the article in regards to a concert in New Bedford.

You can find more information at
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kiko



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Respicorpu Reply with quote

Social problems are usually complex issues due to the reality that there are many factors involved in which the most obvious is social injustice, lack of education and poverty.
External influences make it even more complex and it really tends to create a schism amongst the ideas of the different classes within any society.

It is only rational that prescription before diagnosis is malpractice, therefore suggesting repercussion before an in dept diagnosis of this specific social epidemic in predominately the city of Praia will not address the problem.

In my opinion the first thing that must happen is dialogue in order to understand the real motivation, also the infiltration of these gangs that are beginning to grow in order to establish real alternatives within the economical reality of a city like Praia.

From my understanding the enforcement of criminal law in Cabo Verde is extremely weak, from the simple reason that law enforcement were drastically stripped of some basic function they used to performed in the 1990s.

Lastly, one extra rehabilitation alternative is to force convicted criminals to repay society through labor instead of solitary confinement or congregation amongst themselves while they are incarcerated at the cost of general residents or public. It would be military style of disciplined.

I am confident that there are sufficient labor contributions convicted felons can do to repay their debt to society in Cabo Verde, however it must be closely monitored away from the general public.
Maybe, we can call it Respicorpu, respect or body.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, I understand the factors that may lead a young person to a criminal path. But as always there has to be a consequence for criminal acts or any act for that matter. See, it's the law of physics, for every act, there's a re-action. And prison is an emediate reaction or consequence for a criminal act. Once a mugger is locked-up for robbing or raping someone, maybe when he's inside his prison cell, he'll be able to reflect upon what he did to his victims. Likewise, as you rightly suggested, hard-labor for convicted criminals should be implemented in the Cape Verdean penal code. It's done in United States, it can be done in Cape Verde, too. As I noted in the article, one who chooses to emulate the criminal pathology of the U.S. should likewise be prepared to suffer a U.S-like consequence, which is hard labor and a long prison sentence, because you see, a violent crime, which armed robbery and rape epitomize, is the same, whether it happens in Boston, New Bedford or in Praia.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cabrala



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good job Kakau,

I really congratulate you for such an observation.

Thanks for the point well made. keep up the good work!


Cabrala
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: CHANGE-REFORM- RESTORATION-BORN AGAIN Reply with quote

Thank you for bringing this subject matter to my attention.

I have read it very carefully twice.

Made a few quick notes.

Prison?
CV DEPORTEES?

CRIME-CRIMINALS?

JUSTICE?

INCARCERATE?

CONFINEMENT?

LONGER PRISON SENTENCE?

TRIED BY COURT<WITH COUNCEL.

KASU BODI?

Great movie making.

I was impreesed with the Hollywood Film of what we call thugs and people who are crooks & Thieves and at some point we have seen violent crime. Murder,Rape and so forth.

The Hero the night in shinning armor. That was great acting and good movie making.

The story line is good. The problem is bad any place in the USA,and the world; and it was only a matter of time before it happen in Cabo Verde.
Crime was always in Cabo Verde time has just changed.
As an African man we know the crime for the last 500 years.

Now we see a new form taking place.

Crime is every where here and there.

The question is what will be done about it?
What is the plan to erradicte this psychopathic behavior; that from what you say, they learned this criminal behavoir from the USA. Maybe just bad DNA Embarassed

Deportees, men of crime?

This is only a quick reaction for my comment on this post.

I will have to make some adjustments as I go along.

This is a grave problem if it in fact it is going on in the matter in which you describe. I am totally against violence and criminality in any form.

You make mention of Prison.

On that question I will say I would not want Prison Camps as we have them in the USA.

I would suggest that one of the Islands in which is not inhabitated.

Make that a camp from all those who have been found guilty thru the process of justice in the court of law.

The Island is the prison and the ocean stands on guard and there is no escape.

Re entry training for introduction into society. If you can't change then you do life that is the increasing of your sentence until you can perform as the cadre we will send back to your Island to implement our JAAC training to our youth in the philosophy of good conduct.

Hard core criminals you can die there.

No TV,no radio.sleep on the ground,one blanket. Grow your own food or eat the sand or rocks,there is plenty fish.

Well we know we have to make some corrections.

Hip Hop of positive message like the one that Amilcar Cabral talks about or Malcolm X or Minister Louis Farrakhan teaches and the discipline we can devise in terms what will be the enlightenment for unity.
Re acclamation into being Creolu Caboverdiano.

I would not think about emulating USA Penal Code.

As a matter of fact anything they learned on the Streets they can forget it.
We will have to work out all of the details this is just a quick feed back.

If the government would hire me as a consultant.I would know just how to handle it. I have had some of the Best teachers in the USA.

Malcolm X, Kwame Toure,Huey P. Newton,Dr.Herman Rice,Rev.Muhammad Kenyetta,Muhammad Ali,Max Stanford.The invisible man that stood by the door. (The Spook) Harlem,Detroit,Chicago,Philly,L.A.,Oakland Brothers we will teach them how to respect Africa we will teach them how to respect Pai&Mai. We will teach them how to respect humanity. We will teach them how to respect woman. Oh yea we can do something, but it is how we are going to do it and what will we use as a methodology. Our means.

Cabo Verde is small, we need to take control of our Islands with a much stronger hand,with love of truth.

For those who wish to complain about how we handle our home we will say to them you take care of your's and we will take care of ours.

This is only a off the cuff remarks. It can change and it will change.

You know Jesus had a soft system until he went into the temple and beat the dung out of the money changers and the pharisee.
Those who are pharisaical full of hypocrisy.

Yeah Brother all that was real like they say in the USA
("All Compared To What?")
Bunch of punks here or there it's all the same.
Do we want good or evil?
kasu Bodi does not sound like the creolu I know are there some other out side influence?

No Pintcha!


Last edited by salah Mateus on Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: CHANGE-REFORM- RESTORATION-BORN AGAIN Reply with quote

salah Mateus wrote:
Thank you for bringing this subject matter to my attention.

I have read it very carefully twice.

Made a few quick notes.

Prison?
CV DEPORTEES?

CRIME-CRIMINALS?

JUSTICE?

INCARCERATE?

CONFINEMENT?

LONGER PRISON SENTENCE?

TRIED BY COURT<WITH COUNCEL.

KASU BODI?

Great movie making.

I was impreesed with the Hollywood Film of what we call thugs and people who are crooks & Thieves and at some point we have seen violent crime. Murder,Rape and so forth.

The Hero the night in shinning armor. That was great acting and good movie making.

The story line is good. The problem is bad any place in the USA,and the world; and it was only a matter of time before it happen in Cabo Verde.
Crime was always in Cabo Verde time has just changed.
As an African man we know the crime for the last 500 years.

Now we see a new form taking place.

Crime is every where here and there.

The question is what will be done about it?
What is the plan to erradicte this psychopathic behavior; that from what you say, they learned this criminal behavoir from the USA. Maybe just bad DNA Embarassed

Deportees, men of crime?

This is only a quick reaction for my comment on this post.

I will have to make some adjustments as I go along.

This is a grave problem if it in fact it is going on in the matter in which you describe. I am totally against violence and criminality in any form.

You make mention of Prison.

On that question I will say I would not want Prison Camps as we have them in the USA.

I would suggest that one of the Islands in which is not inhabitated.

Make that a camp from all those who have been found guilty thru the process of justice in the court of law.

The Island in the prison and the ocean stands on guard and there is no escape.

Re entry training for introduction into society. If you can't change then you do life that is the increasing of your sentence until you can perform as the cadre we will send back to your Island to implement our JAAC training to our youth in the philosophy of good conduct.

Hard core criminals you can die there.

No TV,no radio.sleep on the ground,one blanket. Grow your own food or eat the sand or rocks,there is plenty fish.

Well we know we have to make some corrections.

Hip Hop of positive message like the one that Amilcar Cabral talks about or Malcolm X or Minister Louis Farrakhan teaches and Tem Blessed & Dr.J and the discipline we can we devise in terms what will be the enlightenment for unity. Re acclamation into being Creolu Caboverdiano.

I would not think about emulating USA Penal Code.

As a matter of fact anything they learned on the Streets they can forget it.
We will have to work out all of the details this is just a quick feed back.

If the government would hire me as a cosultant.I would know just how to handle it. I have had some of the Best teachers in the USA.

Malcolm X, Kwame Toure,Huewy P. Newton,Dr.Herman Rice,Rev.Muhammad Kenyetta,Muhammad Ali,Max Stanford.The invisible man that stood by the door. Harlem,Detroit,Chicago,Philly,L.A.,Oakland Brothers we will teach them how to respect Africa we will teach them how to respect Pai. We will teach them how to respect humanity. We will teach them how to respect woman. Oh yea we can do something but it is how we are going to do it and what will we use as a methoology.

Cabo Verde is small, we need to take control of our Islands with a much stronger hand.

For those who wish to complain about how we handle our home we will say to them you take care of your's and we will take care of ours.

This is only a off the cuff remarks. It can change and it will change.

Manu Salah
Ps. You know Jesus had a soft system until he went into the temple and beat the shit out of the money changers. Yea Brother all that was real like they say in the USA ("All Compared To What?")
Bunch of punks here or there it's all the same.

kasu Bodi does not sound like the creolu I know are there some other influence?

No Pintcha!



Brothers and sisters here in the USA I suggest that a convention be held at BridgeWater State College under the Direction of Dr.Danna Faria President of BridgeWater State College.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Salah, the penal code of Cape Verde is really so "soft" to the point that it barely deters someone from comitting a heinous crime such as rape.
In the U.S., the "hardest" criminal will think twice before he commits and act of aggravated armed robbery or rape, because these two criminal acts, the U.S. penal code gives very long prison sentences for. Thus it serves as a deterance. It doesn't stop it from happening completely, but it is certainly a deterance.
Now, here's the irony, an hypothetical Cape Verdean youth from boston who's spends his teenage years and his early 20's going in out of prisons, and becomes even more of an hardened criminal along the way, when he finally gets deported to Cape Verde, how do you think he will react to the "soft" penal code of Cape Verde? Think about it!
If this hypothetical criminal youth realizes that he can rob and rape someone in Cape Verde and only get 2 years (compare to 30 in U.S.) in a "soft" CV prison, do you think he'd be detered from engaging in such criminal activities? I think not. That's why I think the sentence guidelines for violent crimes should be altered so it could mirror that of the U.S. Once this is done, I believe the kasu bodi boys would think twice before they attempt to rob and rape innocent people in the streets of Praia and Mindelo and Sal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: CHANGE-REFORM- RESTORATION-BORN AGAIN Reply with quote

salah Mateus wrote:
Thank you for bringing this subject matter to my attention.

I have read it very carefully twice.

Made a few quick notes.

Prison?
CV DEPORTEES?

CRIME-CRIMINALS?

JUSTICE?

INCARCERATE?

CONFINEMENT?
Put them all on one of the empty Islands.
First place they ought to send all deprtees who have a criminal record from any country.
When they have gone thru training to be recycled and a modification program of introduction into a civil society to distinguish right from wrong and to make a positive contribution. You don't leave that Island unless the correction are made.

LONGER PRISON SENTENCE THAT WOULD BE IT.

TRIED BY COURT<WITH COUNCEL.

KASU BODI?

Great movie making.

I was impreesed with the Hollywood Film of what we call thugs and people who are crooks & Thieves and at some point we have seen violent crime. Murder,Rape and so forth.

The Hero the night in shinning armor. That was great acting and good movie making.

The story line is good. The problem is bad any place in the USA,and the world; and it was only a matter of time before it happen in Cabo Verde.
Crime was always in Cabo Verde time has just changed.
As an African man we know the crime for the last 500 years.

Now we see a new form taking place.

Crime is every where here and there.

The question is what will be done about it?
What is the plan to erradicte this psychopathic behavior; that from what you say, they learned this criminal behavoir from the USA. Maybe just bad DNA Embarassed

Deportees, men of crime?

This is only a quick reaction for my comment on this post.

I will have to make some adjustments as I go along.

This is a grave problem if it in fact it is going on in the matter in which you describe. I am totally against violence and criminality in any form.

You make mention of Prison.

On that question I will say I would not want Prison Camps as we have them in the USA.

I would suggest that one of the Islands in which is not inhabitated.

Make that a camp from all those who have been found guilty thru the process of justice in the court of law.

The Island is the prison and the ocean stands on guard and there is no escape.

Re entry training for introduction into society. If you can't change then you do life that is the increasing of your sentence until you can perform as the cadre we will send back to your Island to implement our JAAC training to our youth in the philosophy of good conduct.

Hard core criminals you can die there.

No TV,no radio.sleep on the ground,one blanket. Grow your own food or eat the sand or rocks,there is plenty fish.

Well we know we have to make some corrections.

Hip Hop of positive message like the one that Amilcar Cabral talks about or Malcolm X or Minister Louis Farrakhan teaches and the discipline we can devise in terms what will be the enlightenment for unity.
Re acclamation into being Creolu Caboverdiano.

I would not think about emulating USA Penal Code.

As a matter of fact anything they learned on the Streets they can forget it.
We will have to work out all of the details this is just a quick feed back.

If the government would hire me as a consultant.I would know just how to handle it. I have had some of the Best teachers in the USA.

Malcolm X, Kwame Toure,Huewy P. Newton,Dr.Herman Rice,Rev.Muhammad Kenyetta,Muhammad Ali,Max Stanford.The invisible man that stood by the door. (The Spook) Harlem,Detroit,Chicago,Philly,L.A.,Oakland Brothers we will teach them how to respect Africa we will teach them how to respect Pai&Mai. We will teach them how to respect humanity. We will teach them how to respect woman. Oh yea we can do something, but it is how we are going to do it and what will we use as a methodology. Our means.

Cabo Verde is small, we need to take control of our Islands with a much stronger hand,with love of truth.

For those who wish to complain about how we handle our home we will say to them you take care of your's and we will take care of ours.

This is only a off the cuff remarks. It can change and it will change.

You know Jesus had a soft system until he went into the temple and beat the dung out of the money changers and the pharisee.
Those who are pharisaical full of hypocrisy.

Yeah Brother all that was real like they say in the USA
("All Compared To What?")
Bunch of punks here or there it's all the same.

When they know that they will serve time on a remote Island,they will conform or stay in the state of condition of there sickness until they can over come that vile illness. That should help them to have a change of attitude.
Do we want good or evil?
kasu Bodi does not sound like the creolu I know are there some other out side influence?

No Pintcha!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CV2k



Joined: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If kasu bodi has infested CV and is threatening, besides the criminals, the Government and Authorities are the ones to blame. First, Cape Verde is a small country with only about half a million people split in 10 small islands for them not be able to crash a type of crime restricted to a small geographic area. If you need more resources, get them from the Millennium challenge Account or wherever. This is a worthy investment because it's endangering one of your biggest source of revenue - tourism.

Second, as Kakau said and well, Cape Verde's legal system is soft on crime. It's better to be a criminal in Cape Verde than a very poor individual or homeless because if you commit crime and go to jail there you have: 3 hot meals a day; a place to sleep sometimes comfortable mattress, TV, Video player, and other entertainment, access to telephone, and maybe internet now, a place to learn a job, nice little soccer tournament inside the prison, a place to work out, and a guarantee visit of wives, girlfriends, and all the "pikenas" twice a week without then fighting each other. What better than that?! (I'm talking from experience. I used to visit the prisoners once every week for about 3 years straight at Sao Martinho jail in Santiago island for humanitarian reasons.) I myself would rather be in jail in CV than be a dead poor or homeless. The prisoners usually serve only half of the time locked up (e.g. 2 out of 5 or tens years for severe murders and other high profile crimes); then they get the permission to come to Praia everyday work paid jobs and return to jail at 6 o'clock. Once they behave well for couple of years, they are free to go, so they come back into the society looking like an immigrant: a little chubby and well polished. Actually, there's this joke in Praia: when you return from jail people say that you return from Holland. All this to say that jail in Cape Verde is appealing to those in the low end of poverty food chain and criminals. And who's to blame for that? Please, fill in the blank__________________________.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Military Camp of Discipline(RE-ORIENTATION) Reply with quote

CV2k wrote:
If kasu bodi has infested CV and is threatening, besides the criminals, the Government and Authorities are the ones to blame. First, Cape Verde is a small country with only about half a million people split in 10 small islands for them not be able to crash a type of crime restricted to a small geographic area. If you need more resources, get them from the Millennium challenge Account or wherever. This is a worthy investment because it's endangering one of your biggest source of revenue - tourism.

Second, as Kakau said and well, Cape Verde's legal system is soft on crime. It's better to be a criminal in Cape Verde than a very poor individual or homeless because if you commit crime and go to jail there you have: 3 hot meals a day; a place to sleep sometimes comfortable mattress, TV, Video player, and other entertainment, access to telephone, and maybe internet now, a place to learn a job, nice little soccer tournament inside the prison, a place to work out, and a guarantee visit of wives, girlfriends, and all the "pikenas" twice a week without then fighting each other. What better than that?! (I'm talking from experience. I used to visit the prisoners once every week for about 3 years straight at Sao Martinho jail in Santiago island for humanitarian reasons.) I myself would rather be in jail in CV than be a dead poor or homeless. The prisoners usually serve only half of the time locked up (e.g. 2 out of 5 or tens years for severe murders and other high profile crimes); then they get the permission to come to Praia everyday work paid jobs and return to jail at 6 o'clock. Once they behave well for couple of years, they are free to go, so they come back into the society looking like an immigrant: a little chubby and well polished. Actually, there's this joke in Praia: when you return from jail people say that you return from Holland. All this to say that jail in Cape Verde is appealing to those in the low end of poverty food chain and criminals. And who's to blame for that? Please, fill in the blank__________________________.




Evidently no one has paid any atention to what I had to say.

Folk want to blame the government of Cabo Verde sound like a political head hunt.

The criminals are deportees from different countries mainly from the USA.
Any person who wants to commit a crime should be punished.
I have no use for any criminals in the USA or in Cabo Verde or any other country.

What I have suggested is that all deportees that I sent back to Cabo Verde should be put on an Island by themselves and put thru a training cycle to be redeemed. Reorganization of the state of mind,meaning to be corrected in civil behavior. I have worked in the penal institutions. Just putting people in jail does not change any one to give up crime as a matter of fact they learn how to be better criminals in jail.

Unless we have a program for rentry and one of discipline in terms of nationalism based on Caboverdian philosophy for a civil society we will be at a lost.

For example the kind of teaching that Malcolm X or Minister Farakhan has instituted among the many who were in jail and made corrections on what they were taught on certain principles of being right and helping there nation to make progress and to advance the state of mind.

I know what I am saying is the right way. You may not like it,because while we say from one side of our mouth we want a civil society on the other side of the mouth you want the frivolity (girls gone wild),the negative factors that breed criminals weather it be white collar crime or just a drinking party an all the other bull that goes with it.

Kasu Bodi can be stopped. It has not taken over the country,while in fact there have been some serious crimes in Cabo Verde and we need to put a stop to it but just building jails is not the answer.

Those few punks low lifers need to be incarcerated on an Island that will teach them some manners and if they can;t be rehabilitated to be class (A) citizens as I have saids they can live on that Alcatraz until the day they expire. Any other proposal is full of it. I know about Jail my friends.

We don't want to build jails in Cabo verde as a business we want to raise our children to be right and teach them how to make business to enrich our country and our people.

That is the reality of our morabeza.

Making a sign of victory and a wink of the eye will not make it.

Will we pay the price to over come evil and vile behaviour.

I will tell you this take a page out of the Malcolm X book of knowledge. From The F.O.I. There is much to be said on that score.I ought to know,I ought to know; I was in it for ten years and it was Malcolm X who turned me on to Amilcar Cabral. I spent several weeks in a JAAC camp in the jungles of Guinea. That will straighten there butts out. We have an old saying a hard head makes for a soft ass.

WE ALSO SAY IF THE DOG BITES YOU THE FIRST TIME THAT IS THE DOGS FAULT BUT IF THE DOG BITES YOU THE SECOND TIME THATS YOUR(OUR) FAULT.

THAT MY FRIENDS IS THE CRIME STOPPER.

CUDA Exclamation

Then we teach our young how to live a life worthy of the future of what we want in Azijah by the proper education and enlightenment for our morabeza to make joy and happiness and kindness with justice for peace.
Graca de Deus Cool

Bom Dia.
I JUST FILLED IN THE BLANKS.
Manu Salah
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Salah, sending all convicted criminals to a deserted island in Cape Verde, assuming you mean Santa Luzia, is not feasible nor it is possible. The best way to deal with convicted criminals especially the violent and ricidivous ones, is to, first of all, lenghten the prison sentences. Someone convicted of aggravated armed robbery or rape should serve nothing less than 20 years of incarceration. As for murder, depending if it's first degree, that is, premeditated, such convict should serve a minimum of 40 years in prison. For the second degree murder or manslaughter(voluntary or involuntary) the sentences should be 30, 15 and 8 years in prison, respectfully.
And in the mean time, while they are incarcerated, I would suggest that qualified rehabilitation therapists be hired to counsel convict so that when they do get released from prison, they'd become productive members of society.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakau wrote:
Mr. Salah, sending all convicted criminals to a deserted island in Cape Verde, assuming you mean Santa Luzia, is not feasible nor it is possible. The best way to deal with convicted criminals especially the violent and ricidivous ones, is to, first of all, lenghten the prison sentences. Someone convicted of aggravated armed robbery or rape should serve nothing less than 20 years of incarceration. As for murder, depending if it's first degree, that is, premeditated, such convict should serve a minimum of 40 years in prison. For the second degree murder or manslaughter(voluntary or involuntary) the sentences should be 30, 15 and 8 years in prison, respectfully.
And in the mean time, while they are incarcerated, I would suggest that qualified rehabilitation therapists be hired to counsel convict so that when they do get released from prison, they'd become productive members of society.


Nothing is impossible tell us why you think it is? Why is it not feasible?

Long prison terms only means that it is coastly to maintain.

Food,clothing and shelter?
Treat them the same way they treat there victims,they want to be animals will treat them like annimals,those who conform and can be saved they get a second chance,or else spend your life on that miserable Island.

You kill you get hanged, not 40 years.

They can get counsel with military type basic training.

Seems to me you want a penitentiary institution a detention center..

How many hard core criminals do you think you have in Cabo Verde who go around sayin Kasu Bodi?

Well I think it is for those who govern who will make the final choice that is only my opinion.

Take for example in Saudia Arabia you don't have many thieves or criminals. You pay for your crime get your hands cut off or your feet or you could get the sword,seperate your head from your shoulder. I think that if they see some men around with no hands or feet and know that their heads will roll that would be a great deterrence. What do you think about that Mr Kakau?

All is fair in love and war so they say.

It would seem to me you would like to coddle criminals,and put a greater burden on the people who pay taxes for there care.

In the USA it cost about $40.000 a year for one inmate.

Ther are more people who are in jail then graduate from College in the African American community. Ther are some great numbers on this question ask Sister Cabral in Boston who is the top correction officer in Massachussets.

I am not convinced about your point in the jail system and penal code.

Manu Salah
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe in capital punishment (death sentence), Mr. Salah. Nor do I believe in draconian (too harsh) or too soft (like cape verde's) penal code system, either. See, given my own religious and philosophical point of views, if I were in a position to influence official policy, I wouldn't advocate for your ideas. Your penal code ideas may be feasible in a different system, such as an islamic one, for instance, but definetely not in a judeo-cristian nation like Cape Verde.
In any case, all things considered, what I'm trying to advocate is a comprehensive penal code and rehabilitation system. In other words, if someone murders another, provided that this hypothetical murder wasn't premaditated(first degree), this person should be given a chance to be rehabilitated after he pays his debt to society, 40 or 60 years later of hard time in prison.
All other persons convicted of other crimes, in my personal opinion, should not exceed 50 years in a prison. See, murder is, arguably, the worse crime you can committ. Rape probably comes at a close second and aggravated armed robbery a close third. That's why I suggested different amount of years for each one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uffe



Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Praia, Cape Verde

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Kasu bodi Reply with quote

Thanks to the author for a well written and (unfortunately) timely contribution.

In February I wrote a blog on a very similar subject, perhaps from a slightly more philosophical perspective. It touches on many of the topics mentioned above. Here is an extract:

"In order to seriously abate violence, you therefore need a society based on universally accepted moral principles that are effectively taught to and applied by everybody, as well as an efficient law enforcement system that puts those who violate these principles before justice. But this is far from enough. The same society also needs to nurture a sense of responsibility, integrity and empathy, and it must be founded on equal opportunities and inclusiveness. Otherwise, you will still find people desperate enough to commit violent crime, as an act of despair."

Klick here
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

and read more if you are interested.

As for copying the US penal system: frankly, I'm not convinced. There is no evidence what so ever that harder, longer or tougher sentence actually works. There are literally millions of inmates in the US, but crime is still abundant, and in many places even on the rise.

Not to speak about the barbaric death sentence. I find it completely absurd that the so called greatest democracy in the world still applies this horrendous act, togehter with China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and others. Killings signed, approved and undertaken by democratic (or undemocratic, for that matter) governments are NEVER acceptable. First of all because it is inhuman and irreversible. But also because it is futile. It simply doesn’t work. Barbaric acts will always promote new barbaric acts. Especially when sanctioned by government and society in general.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Remember, The Mule it ain't no Jackass. Reply with quote

Uffe wrote:
Thanks to the author for a well written and (unfortunately) timely contribution.

In February I wrote a blog on a very similar subject, perhaps from a slightly more philosophical perspective. It touches on many of the topics mentioned above. Here is an extract:

"In order to seriously abate violence, you therefore need a society based on universally accepted moral principles that are effectively taught to and applied by everybody, as well as an efficient law enforcement system that puts those who violate these principles before justice. But this is far from enough. The same society also needs to nurture a sense of responsibility, integrity and empathy, and it must be founded on equal opportunities and inclusiveness. Otherwise, you will still find people desperate enough to commit violent crime, as an act of despair."

Klick here
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

and read more if you are interested.

As for copying the US penal system: frankly, I'm not convinced. There is no evidence what so ever that harder, longer or tougher sentence actually works. There are literally millions of inmates in the US, but crime is still abundant, and in many places even on the rise.

Not to speak about the barbaric death sentence. I find it completely absurd that the so called greatest democracy in the world still applies this horrendous act, togehter with China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and others. Killings signed, approved and undertaken by democratic (or undemocratic, for that matter) governments are NEVER acceptable. First of all because it is inhuman and irreversible. But also because it is futile. It simply doesn’t work. Barbaric acts will always promote new barbaric acts. Especially when sanctioned by government and society in general.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.



Uffe Thank you for your observation.

I went from the sublime to the ridiculous as a test of how some folk might think. Your sentence in quotes."In order to seriously abate violence.That ends as an act of despair".

Moral principals is what I am all about friend. That are effectively taught and applied.As well as an efficient law enforcement.

I mention the teachings of the late Malcolm X and that of Minister Louis Farrakhan,because I have seen the affect it has on there followers.

The philosophy and psychology I think is what needs to be developed on Caboverdean means of behavior and conduct. Our culture has some great values of the past which has been lost. For example as a child it was a great honor to respect your parents and your elders by taking a blessing. That idea was killed for most part by the church who felt that blessings should only come from the priest who exerted power over our parents and our youth. A break down in parental control among other issues. I will not go into that. But colonialism created many problems.

The question is what will we do with the adults who themselves break the social norms of good character. Over indulgence in any form of drugs.

The loose moral behavior in which we are guilty. Then we have those that teach you can do what ever you want and be forgiven by making your confession. While in fact we witness the wrong doings of those who preach to us. That is a revolving door of despair also.

Hell has no sin that sunday can't cure?

What do we do with those elements who out of despair rob and hurt others? Most of them grew up in the revolving door of despair, the church.
What discipline will we put into affect and how will mankind react or any group of people? So it is said he or she who be with out sin cast the first stone. I am not able to cast the first stone,but I have redeemed myself in the teachings of what I call B.C. Buddha & Christ.

I will say this that in all of my studies I find the teaching of the Buddhist to have a saving grace. I think also that the truth in the teaching of Emanuel or Jesus (Yeshua) has saving grace.That is in its proper order.

Thats all I will say on the subject.

Poverty,ignorance lies,greed and all the others brings us to decadence.

Is it possible to have an open society where every thing goes and think we can have decency.

The quality or state of being decent. What conformity of standards will we put into practice?

I pray for the correct answer.

How do we go from evil,vile and ill to good favorable character free from injury or disease (DIS-EASE).

I think Amilcar Cabral was trying to say some thing when He said>
"RETURN TO THE SOURCE"

I THINK THAT SOURCE IS DEUS.

THAT IS IF WE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT MEANS.
AND PRACTICE ON BEING RIGHT OR RIGHTEOUS.

I WILL SUGGEST THAT WE READ THE BOOK:THE LIVING BUDDHA THE LIVING CHRIST BY THICH NHAT HANH.

Manu Salah
With love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT RESURGENCE Reply with quote

salah Mateus wrote:
Uffe wrote:
Thanks to the author for a well written and (unfortunately) timely contribution.

In February I wrote a blog on a very similar subject, perhaps from a slightly more philosophical perspective. It touches on many of the topics mentioned above. Here is an extract:

"In order to seriously abate violence, you therefore need a society based on universally accepted moral principles that are effectively taught to and applied by everybody, as well as an efficient law enforcement system that puts those who violate these principles before justice. But this is far from enough. The same society also needs to nurture a sense of responsibility, integrity and empathy, and it must be founded on equal opportunities and inclusiveness. Otherwise, you will still find people desperate enough to commit violent crime, as an act of despair."

Klick here
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

and read more if you are interested.

As for copying the US penal system: frankly, I'm not convinced. There is no evidence what so ever that harder, longer or tougher sentence actually works. There are literally millions of inmates in the US, but crime is still abundant, and in many places even on the rise.

Not to speak about the barbaric death sentence. I find it completely absurd that the so called greatest democracy in the world still applies this horrendous act, togehter with China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and others. Killings signed, approved and undertaken by democratic (or undemocratic, for that matter) governments are NEVER acceptable. First of all because it is inhuman and irreversible. But also because it is futile. It simply doesn’t work. Barbaric acts will always promote new barbaric acts. Especially when sanctioned by government and society in general.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.



Uffe Thank you for your observation.

I went from the sublime to the ridiculous as a test of how some folk might think. Your sentence in quotes."In order to seriously abate violence.That ends as an act of despair".

Moral principals is what I am all about friend. That are effectively taught and applied.As well as an efficient law enforcement.

I mention the teachings of the late Malcolm X and that of Minister Louis Farrakhan,because I have seen the affect it has on there followers.

The philosophy and psychology I think is what needs to be developed on Caboverdean means of behavior and conduct. Our culture has some great values of the past which has been lost. For example as a child it was a great honor to respect your parents and your elders by taking a blessing. That idea was killed for most part by the church who felt that blessings should only come from the priest who exerted power over our parents and our youth. A break down in parental control among other issues. I will not go into that. But colonialism created many problems.

The question is what will we do with the adults who themselves break the social norms of good character. Over indulgence in any form of drugs.

The loose moral behavior in which we are guilty. Then we have those that teach you can do what ever you want and be forgiven by making your confession. While in fact we witness the wrong doings of those who preach to us. That is a revolving door of despair also.

Hell has no sin that sunday can't cure?

What do we do with those elements who out of despair rob and hurt others? Most of them grew up in the revolving door of despair, the church OF SOME SO-CALLED RELIGION.

What discipline will we put into affect and how will mankind react or any group of people? So it is said he or she who be with out sin cast the first stone. I am not able to cast the first stone,but I have redeemed myself in the teachings of what I call B.C. Buddha & Christ.

WHEN I SAY REDEEM IS THAT I AM IN THE PROCESS WORKING AND TRYING MY BEST TO EXTRICATE FROM OR HELP TO OVERCOME SOMETHING DETRIMENTAL FROM THE WEAKNESS OF MY FAULTS.



I will say this that in all of my studies I find the teaching of the Buddhist to have a saving grace. I think also that the truth in the teaching of Emanuel or Jesus (Yeshua) has saving grace.That is in its proper order.

Thats all I will say on the subject.

Poverty,ignorance lies,greed and all the others brings us to decadence.

Is it possible to have an open society where every thing goes and think we can have decency.

The quality or state of being decent. What conformity of standards will we put into practice?

I pray for the correct answer.

How do we go from evil,vile and ill to good favorable character free from injury or disease (DIS-EASE).

I think Amilcar Cabral was trying to say some thing when He said>
"RETURN TO THE SOURCE"

I THINK THAT SOURCE IS DEUS.

I SHOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT I HAVE BEEN STUDYING THE TEACHINGS OF CHRISTIAN RATIONALISM OF FORCE AND MATTER WHICH TEACHES ABOUT EVOLUTION,FAMILY AND CHARACTER AND ABOUT PHYSICAL AND PSYCHIC PHENOMENA AMONG MANY OTHER SUBJECTS OF GOOD BEHAVIOR.

PERHAPS IN CABO VERDE WHERE ON MANY ISLANDS I SAW THE BUILDINGS OF CHRISTIAN RATIONALISM MIGHT BE JUST THE PLACE WE NEED TO BEGIN TO FREE OUR MINDS FROM THE OBSESSION OF OUR ILLNESS OF MIND. THE EVIL OF IGNORANCE. THE NEED FOR ENLIGHTENMENT.

THAT IS IF WE REALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT MEANS.
AND PRACTICE ON BEING RIGHT OR RIGHTEOUS & RESPONSIBLE.

I WILL SUGGEST ALSO THAT WE READ THE BOOK:THE LIVING BUDDHA THE LIVING CHRIST BY THICH NHAT HANH.

I AM IN THE PROCESS OF CHANGE.
Manu Salah
With love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kakau



Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Kasu bodi Reply with quote

Uffe wrote:
Thanks to the author for a well written and (unfortunately) timely contribution.

In February I wrote a blog on a very similar subject, perhaps from a slightly more philosophical perspective. It touches on many of the topics mentioned above. Here is an extract:

"In order to seriously abate violence, you therefore need a society based on universally accepted moral principles that are effectively taught to and applied by everybody, as well as an efficient law enforcement system that puts those who violate these principles before justice. But this is far from enough. The same society also needs to nurture a sense of responsibility, integrity and empathy, and it must be founded on equal opportunities and inclusiveness. Otherwise, you will still find people desperate enough to commit violent crime, as an act of despair."

As for copying the US penal system: frankly, I'm not convinced. There is no evidence what so ever that harder, longer or tougher sentence actually works. There are literally millions of inmates in the US, but crime is still abundant, and in many places even on the rise.

Not to speak about the barbaric death sentence. I find it completely absurd that the so called greatest democracy in the world still applies this horrendous act, togehter with China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and others. Killings signed, approved and undertaken by democratic (or undemocratic, for that matter) governments are NEVER acceptable. First of all because it is inhuman and irreversible. But also because it is futile. It simply doesn’t work. Barbaric acts will always promote new barbaric acts. Especially when sanctioned by government and society in general.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind.


Mr. Uffe, I'm not a proponent of the capital punishment, either. Still, I believe the U.S. penal code system provides more justice to crime victims and their families.
In any case, you may not agree that that Cape Verde should copy the U.S penal code system, but one thing that I'm sure you'd agree with me is that someone who committs aggravated armed robbery and rape should be locked-up for more than 3 years. Only 3 years for armed robbery and rape? That, I'm sure you'd say is much too "soft" of a punishment. So what's the solution? Significantly lenghten the prison sentences for violent crimes. That's what I'm advocating, appropiate sentences that reflect the gravity of the crime.
And as I noted previously in the other post, once a culprit is locked-up, he should have the opportunity to rehabitate himself, so that when he's released, he'd become, as I said, a productive and law abiding member of society.
Now, should he commit the same crime again, that's when the U.S. penal code should really be emulated in Cape Verde, or in other words, such hypothetical offender should hear the following "Mr. so and so., you've been sentenced to 30 years to life in the penetentiary for armed robbery and rape". For a recidivist criminal(repeat offender) such sentence is imperative for the good and safety of society.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uffe



Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Praia, Cape Verde

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakau,
I am glad you are note advocating the Capital punishment. This is an important clarification, since, after all, this horrendous practice is a central part of the US penal system.

I must confess that I don't know much about Cape Verde's system of justice, and I therefore don't know if or how it needs to be strengthened. I also think that you make a number of valid points above. But I still think it is far to simple to call for longer sentences and hope that this will solve the issue. What is more effective is to create a society which is inclusive, and where you are tought to be responsible for your actions. Here is another quite from my blog:

"As far as I can tell, people who commit horrific crimes are driven by a sense of utter despair and hopelessness. Also, they probably believe they can do it with little or no consequence. I am quite convinced that man is born neither “good” nor “evil”, but becomes product of the society he is raised in. We are no doubt biologically predisposed in one direction or the other (just look at the obvious gender differences when it comes to the use of violence), but in the end I think we are all capable of being either Mother Theresa or Adolf Hitler, or anything in between. How we actually turn out will be the effect of the people we meet, the values we are taught and the society we learn to know."

The case of Cape Verdean deportees from the USA is somehow a special case, and perhaps it needs special treatment;
1) First of all, is it fair that the US deports these people? Are they not born and raised in the US (albeit with Cape Verdean parents)? Are they not a product of the US society? Should not the US take care of a problem that is created in their own country?
2) The Cape Verdean government should be duly notified of every deportee, and have a system in place to take preventive measures. Optimally, the deportee should be offered effective rehabilitation upon arrival, before getting in contact with cape Verdean youth, and then be held under close observation by the police. Give him a chance to start a new life, rather than treating him as paria, eg with threats of longer sentences.
3) A main question is also: why are so many(?) youths inlfuenced by the deportees? Shurely this will have something to do with their life situation, possibility to go t school and to find a job etc. Again, I am sure that preventive measures would be more effective.
4) Where preventive measures doesn't work (basically, this will be true only for people with serious mental illnesses), of course you need to have a strong and effective penal system. But I still think there are better models than the one used in the USA to learn from. In fact, since Cape Verde apparently has a long history of very little crime, perhaps they should analyse their own history of violence and see what went wrong and what lessons can be learned from their own history.

Finally, I don't think that the justice system first and foremost should seek to provide justice to the victims (this kind of reasoning is a main argument for the proponents of the death penalty). What is more important is that it minimises preconditions for crime to be committed in the first place. Unfortunately, I don't believe that a rapist will refrain from raping just because he might face 30 instead of 10 years in prison. It is indeed unfortunate, because if this was the case, crime abatement would be very simple.

On a final note, the issue of crime, prevention and puinishment is extremely complicated. I don't have all the answers, far from it. My main point is really that I hope that Cape Verde will find their own system rather than copying one that clearly doesn't work very well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
salah Mateus



Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Preventive Measures