salah,

I have the right to have my own OPINIONS, as long as I expose facts that corroborates my opinions. I never criticised Cral, as a human being, I am against some of his concepts. I think that cabral was rigth to fight for freedom and against fascism but I don't share his ideas on the capeverdean identity, Cabral did a mistake on that topic.

Cabral asked to the capeverdeans to replace their true culture and identity and to replace it by the guinean culture. He asked for the suicide of the criolo culture to replace it with the guinean-african culture. I don't agree with this because the capeverdean culture is unique.

salah,

sometimes you use pathetic fallacious arguments. Your arguments are out of context, this gives them a lot of streght, and will influence the ignorants.

You are so pompous when you talk about the literacy, illeteracy in cape verde. Why do you put it out of its context? Read some history books of portugal, and you will find written on the most respected ones that the litteracy rate in cape verde was higher than the portuguese literracy rate untill the 1950'ies. The litteracy rate of capeverde and portugal was not so high it was around 5-10%. Some people just knew how to read and not how to understand a context, this was true in capeverde and was also true in portugal. So, whats your point? propaganda by bringing facts out of context?

The portuguese litteracy rate increased when portugal joined the EU and know is almost 100%, even if you make a test, you will find a huge number of people in portugal who don't understand what they read.
Goudeloupe and Martinique which stay part of france are know at a litteracy rate of almost 100%, if cabo-verde had done the same with portugal, the litteracy rate in cape verde would be around 100% because the EU laws requires to reach that rate and invests money in the countries where the full litteracy is not reached. For example, since 1986 spain received 11 billion $ every year from the EU for its devloppement, more than africa. If cape verde was part of portugal, EU, its devloppement will be much higher right now and will be similar to madeira, martinique, canarias. Instead of this, capeverde has a gdp/capita 10times lower when compared to martinique, madeira or canarias. and I never heard a martiniquais complaining of their situation, they are very proud to be french.

You can see that when you put things on context, your lies just collapses. Your litteracy arguments when put on context are not a good example because the situation was the same in portugal.

Concerning, the constitution, it can be changed if this doesn't suit anymore the capeverdean people interests. The most important thing is the capeverdean people interest and not Cabrals books, concepts, theories. If the cabrals theories are put in front of the capeverdeans inetrests then it is a dictatorship and propaganda, this makes me dislike even more cabrals theories as it looks like that, no one can oppose them.

Santo Antao, can you provide to us a reference on where Cabral asked Capeverdeans to abandon their own identity and replace with it with Gineean culture (the exact quote from A. Cabral).

Cabrala

go and read his books, do your homework, you will find it. Cabral asks the suicide of the capeverdean culture and asks the capeverdeans to replace it with the guinean culture.

St_Antao, cut down on Bsing.

This is what I'm talking about: Facts from credible sources not prejudices and racially biased sources like your white supremacist mindset. I hope that after this, you stop your propaganda and disinformation campaign:





From Africa Travel Chronicle:

"General Information of Cape Verde
People: Creole (mulatto) 71%, African 28%, European 1%"
(http://africa.travel-chronicle.com/africa-travel/index.php?category_name=cape-verde/&paged=2)

From the CIA Fact Book:

"Background
The uninhabited islands were discovered and colonized by the Portuguese in the 15th century; Cape Verde subsequently became a trading center for African slaves and later an important coaling and resupply stop for whaling and transatlantic shipping. Following independence in 1975, and a tentative interest in unification with Guinea-Bissau, a one-party system was established and maintained until multi-party elections were held in 1990. Cape Verde continues to exhibit one of Africa's most stable democratic governments. Repeated droughts during the second half of the 20th century caused significant hardship and prompted heavy emigration. As a result, Cape Verde's expatriate population is greater than its domestic one. Most Cape Verdeans have both African and Portuguese antecedents.

Location
Western Africa, group of islands in the North Atlantic Ocean, west of Senegal

Ethnic groups
Creole (mulatto) 71%, African 28%, European 1%

Languages
Portuguese, Crioulo (a blend of Portuguese and West African words)"
(The World Factbook: Cape Verde -https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/print/cv.html)

From Wikipedia.org:
The Republic of Cape Verde or Cape Verde is a republic located on an archipelago in the Macaronesia ecoregion of the North Atlantic Ocean, off the western coast of Africa.

Demographics
Main article: Demographics of Cape Verde

Most inhabitants of Cape Verde are mestiços, descendants of enslaved Africans and white Portuguese settlers. Mestiços’ European ancestors also include Spanish and Italian seamen who were granted land by Portuguese Empire and followed by Portuguese settlers and exiles and Portuguese Jews who were victims of the Inquisition. The remainder includes mostly black Africans or Europeans (most Portuguese left the country after independence). Many foreigners from other parts of the world settled Cape Verde as their permanent country. Most of them were Dutch, French, British (English), Arabs and Jews (from Lebanon and Morocco), Chinese (especially from Macau), Americans, and Brazilians (including people of Portuguese and African descent) settlers. All of these have been absorbed into the mestiço population.

More Cape Verdeans live abroad than in Cape Verde, with significant emigrant Cape Verdean communities in the United States (500,000 Cape Verdians), Portugal (80,000) and Angola (45,000). There are also significant number of Cape Verdeans in São Tomé and Príncipe, Senegal, France, Brazil and the Netherlands. Cape Verdean populations also settled Spain, Germany, and other CPLP countries (Brazil and Guinea-Bissau).

Culture
Main article: Culture of Cape Verde

The culture of Cape Verde reflects its mixed African and Portuguese roots. It is well known for its diverse forms of music such as Morna (like the Portuguese Fado) and the urban Angolan kizomba, and a wide variety of dances: the soft dance Morna, and its modernized version, pasada, the Funana - a sensual mixed Portuguese and African dance, the extreme sensuality of coladeira (literally "glued"), and the African Batuque dance. These are reflective of the diverse origins of Cape Verde's residents. The term "Cabo" is used to refer to residents as well as the culture of Cape Verde.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde#Online)

You've never read any of Cabral books, st_antao. If had read his books and understood the theories and goals of his writings, you would not be telling blatant lies about him or grossly misquote him. And do get this in your asinine brain, Cabral NEVER advocated for the suicide of the Cape Verdean culture. In fact, he strongly favored the valorization of the CV culture. What he said is that the pequeno borguezia or pettit bourgeoisie ought to undergo a self-imposed class suicide so as to allow the goals and interests of the masses to progess or materialize. So it's class suicide Cabral advocated for, not cultural suicide.

The pettit borgeoisie is what's commonly called "the elite". In the Cape Verdean case, they were a barrier to the aspirations of the vast majority of Cape Verdeans. The vast majority of Cape Verdeans, in Cabral times, as well as today, are peasants. Their goals and dreams were being impeded by the pettit Cape Verdean bourgeosie, the CV compradores, that is, who didn't produce anything and who collaborated with their own oppressors to oppress the masses and themselves. They were victims of the 'dividir e reinar' scheme. All colonialists and oppressors employ the divide and conquer scheme to control their 'subjects'. See, the small Cape Verdean class elite even knew that they were playing the simultaneous roles of oppressors and oppressed. Eventually they resolved that they no longer wished to be the first or the later. So they committed suicide as a class just as Cabral had suggested. Thus enter the freeing of the former portuguese colonies with their help. In other words, with the help of the Cape Verdean mid-level colonial administrators, the masses of Cabo Verde, Guinea Bissau, Angola, and Sao Tome&Principe, were able to accomplish their ultimate goal, independence.

salah,

you are like the imbecile that looks at the finger when the wise man is showing the moon.

The facts are on my side, Unfortunatly,1. cabral was killed by the guineans,2. the capeverde-guinea factice union colapsed by itself. 3. Capeverde is fed up with the cedeao, and wants to go out,4. capeverde is seeking a "small" but interesting link to the EU and even most important, 5. the little bourgeoisie didn't suicide. Cabral got it all wrong.

Cabo Verde is an independent sovereign country and member of the ECOWAS(CEDEAO) and the African Union(AU) and will always be a member of the said two organizations. This fact, in of itself, validates Cabral's work and legacy.
You and your pathetic MPD friends can keep on dreaming.

unlike you maica, I dond't do politics, I don't do propaganda

CV is the less integrated of the cedeao countries, cedeao is colapsing and I think it will not last.

St. Antao,
You're free to have your opinions in regards to the work done buy the freedom fighter Cabral. It is obvious that clear logic will not convice you otherwise so be free to stay that way. Secondly, what I said about research was meant to recognize academic research not word of mouth research as you have done. Do yourself a favor and attend the next Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. & Amilcar Cabral freedom conference. It is held annually at Umass Boston during balck history month. If you feel as confident about your view points surely you'll entertain the crowd by voicing your opinion in a open forum with others who were there on the frontlines; who not only witnessed Cabral's work but inspired his mission and his speeches. Which as Amilcar Cabral stated was: "To do my work to end emperialism and help every man stand not as black or white but human beings free to rule over their own lands".

I wish I could,

unfortunatly I am in europe and unless if you invite me to this conference I will no go there...

I think that researchers in social science have to listen to the real people instead of doing theories that don't relate to what the people think.

What would have happen if instead of applying stupidly the theories of amilcar cabral, the politicians had ask to the capeverdean people (the peasants as maica tells) for a referendum on the independence of capeverde in 1975. The population would have voted for capeverde to stay portuguese, that's why the paicv pushed for not to do the referendum. The result, is that capeverde is 10 times poorer than madeira or canary....

There was a referendum done in 1974 and the Cape Verdean people voted overwhelmingly for PAIGC, now PAICV, in favor of the more bourgeois pro colonialist parties. Read the book "Fortunate Isles: A study in African transformation" for more details. See, that's what you have do to more, read, instead of listening to your illiterate grandparents.

St. Antao,
If your in europe you probably can gain acess to a book titled, "Os Bastidores da Independencia" it is written by Joao Vicent Lopes. It is a great book which describes event to event exactly how the movement for independence was born. It also details who were the leaders of the independence, thats right it was not just cabral, there were other great cape verdean leaders who fought and died at the hands of the P.I.D.E for our independence. It was also not the 1st time that cape verdeans fought for equality for others. Chapter 2 of the book will be a great eye opener for you, I will not ruin the suprise for you but I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it. It will blow your mind. Anyways, take your time and read it, do your self that favor. Stop coming to this site for a while read it and then come back, let us know what your think. Here is a preview Amilcar Cabral's father was Juvenal Cabral born and raised in San Tiago son of a prominent priest, his mother Iva Evora was born in Boavista she worked as a tailor and was very popular in the island for her craft, she worked as a tailor to put her son through school. Hope you enjoy it...

finnally, cabral's father was part of the "petite bourgeoisie" and he was what maica calls the "proxie" of the portuguese. He was part of the portuguese administration in guinea bissau, where he met cabral's mother, who was a guinean. Cabral is born in guinea. He became a "proxie" of the portuguese for a couple of years working for the portuguese administration before joining the guerilla.
Cabral was himself part of the "petite bourgeoisie".

when cabral calls for the "reafricanisation of the minds", he clearly means that the minds are not african anymore, he means that they are portuguese. That's how he call for the suicide of the capeverdean culture because he asks for the reafricanisation of the minds, he wants the capeverdean culture to disapper to be replaced by the african culture (guinea-bissau).

Now, whatever cabral says, and whatever the quality of his writting skills, we have to judge based on the results.
1. Did the petite bourgeoisie suicide? no, they are ruling capeverde in the paicv and selling the capeverdean land to the foreigners for 1$. Some of them have millions of $ in their accounts.
2. Did the africanisation of the mind work, or did the capeverdeans replace their culture for the guinean culture? no, the majority of capeverdean are still very portuguese in their culture, identity.
3. Is cape verde and guinea bissau the same people? no, the paicv try this fallacy but the military coup end up this.
4. Will capeverde integrate into africa, no sure, africa is not integrating to itself so how will capeverde integrate into something that is not structured.
5. Cape verde will be more educated and more devlopped if it is independent? no, look at the canary, madeira, martinique or gouadeloupe these island nations are 10 times richer than capeverde and their litteracy rate reaches 99%, because they are part of the EU.

The most important points of cabral theories didn't succeed because (according to me) they didn't have a good basis, cabral didn't take into account the reality but he took his whishes for the reality.

maica,

1. you are the first to emphasize the fact that the sempadjudas are the proxies of the portuguese. The father of cabral was a mixed race proxie of the portuguese, he was part of the "petite bourgeoisie". The father of cabral was a proxie of the portuguese in guinea, and there he met the mother of Cabral and cabral was born in guinea. Cabral himself, although he was not mixed race was a proxie of the portuguese in guinea and angola for several years. The first strategie of cabral was to ignate the revoltution from the guinean-educated-working class, this failed in 1954, then he decided to focus on the poor people.

2. you are maybe right, about the difference between portuguese and capeverdean. But the capeverdeans, no matter what they look like, no matter how they behave, the majority of the capeverdeans have portuguese origins, and have portuguese matrix in their culture. In terms of identity, the portuguese matrix is the one that as the most importance in capeverde, because it is the unifying cement of the capeverdean culture. Why? because 500 years ago, when there was slaves in cape-verde, the slaves had several different ethnic background, and what united them was the portuguese culture that was imposed to them. This has been reinforced when in the 16th century, capeverde became a mixed race nation then the portuguese cultural matrix, became the most important component of the identity because the portuguese culture was an heritage that the mixed race capeverdean received from his father. After the 16th century, the portuguese culture became an heritage from their portuguese fathers.

3. I am more likely to tell that most capeverdeans have senegalese, gambian, the 2 guineas gene. The slaves came from senegambia which was composed of the aforementioned countries. For me the capeverdeans are more likely to have links with the senegalese than the guineans.

4. Africa is not an integrated continent, so even if capeverde takes part to these institutions, this will not change anything. If you want to be convinced by my argument, go in google and type "cape-verde ecowas", you will see what is the trend in the relationship. Furthermore mauritania left the ecowas, and sao-tome refused to join this organisation...Maybe the paicv has other plans for capeverde, other than the ecowas.

5. There comes your lack of perspective. In capeverde, very few people can go to the university, and then between them very few can go to study in portugal. This is a selection process which allows only the very best capeverdeans to go to study in portugal. A capeverdean will be accepted to study in portugal only if he has a level above the portuguese average. This is why some think they are smarter...(anyway, they have been selected for this reason).
If capeverde was part of portugal, the capeverdean students would not have restrictions to study in portugal...and even better if they wanted in the EU because there is freedom of movement between member states, if capeverde was part of portugal, the capeverdean students could go study in france, england, holland, germany without restriction. This is one of the several opportunities that have been lost by capeverde in 1975.

No material gain that a UE passport can offer can replace the dignity and nationhood pride of national sovereignty, i.e., independence.

if your national pride is so high, why do you and other members of your familly go to study in portugal? Why are you so eagger to replace your capeverdean culture by the african american culture?

The fact is that being part of the EU is a great previlege, there is no frontiers and you can go whenever you want wherever you want. If you are a EU citizen, if you want to go to holland you just have to take your lugages and go, holland, france, italy, england, germany are open access to european citizens. If capeverde was in the EU, there will not anymore be restrictions in the immigration to the EU countries. Furthermore the EU provides huge devloppement funds for all its state members, spain received every year since 1986, 11 billion $ every year. Capeverde would have received a significant amount for its devloppement.

The advantages would be free movement inside the EU and huge amounts of devloppement funds. Cape verde could be as devlopped as the canary islands, which received billions of $ from the EU. Capeverde is 10 times less rich than the canary islands.

St. Antao,
What you are failing to see is that Cape Verdeans are not like the wh**es in EU they don't sell themselves to the highest bidders as you have sold yourself out.

st. Antao,
the portuguese wave a diploma in your face and you sit up and beg like a good boy. Real education comes from hard living and appreciating what your hard works gets you. The CV university is coming soon, maybe you ought to go study there.

paoloG,

it is maicas familly who go to portugal to study. To be honest portuguese universities are crap.

The EU is composed of spain, france, holland, germany, belgium, luxembourg, sweden, finland, austria, portugal, ireland, italy, chypre, malta, poland, estonia, hungary, slovenia...

no one of these countries are whores, the EU membership is not for free, you have to bring something to the community, but also you will receive a lot, spain received 11 billion$ every year for its devloppement, portugal received 3 billion$ every year since 1986. The new countries will receive a lot of money as well. There is also the advantage of free movement in can live anywhere in the 27 member-states.

St Antao,
I'm most concerned in being able to advance our country to the point where there will be a university in every island. That way I can travel freely in between them instead of in the eu. There are literally hundreds of gifted cape verdean scholars and Drs. who are also working hard towards that goal and are waiting for an opportunity to teach in our own universities rather than in America and Europe. Furthermore, the cape verdean islands and its people have offered much to the world. The Eu should offer all the money they can to cape verde for what they stole and pirated from our lands during the 16th century onward. We should not have to be a member of the EU to be eligble for funds. Thankfully many responsible EU nations have realized their past transgressions agaisnt us, have put us at a disadvantage and are now actively contributing to the socio-economic welfare of our nation.

PaoloG,

be honest, there was nothing to be stolhen in cape-verde.

Furthermore, the canary islands, madeira and martinique have their own universities. The EU fund these universities and they have a tremendous level in some domains. Capeverde is still to have a university and it will take some 30 years to have an international level...

St. Antao,

Go Read up before you can debate in something you have no info on. Did you find that book I refered to you?

"je suis insensible aux propagandes" = I am insensitive to propagandas, so I will not read your books. I prefer to look at the facts and the reality and I base my judgement on the results, if the results are not good, then the theory is not good...

Furthermore, PaoloG, how can I trust you? Knowing that since you entered this topic you didn't expose your ideas. You have just been here criticising my opinions...