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Lu di Dulce Guest
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:14 am Post subject: |
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People, my dear people, what kind of discussion is this? Don't you all think that we have better things to spend our energy and intellect on? Don't you all understand that while we spend countless hours and words in diatribe about what we are or should be called, the opportunities to better ourselves, to fight against this very prejudice caused by the coloniser, are passing by?
Since there are so many good people, with so many good ideas why not try to do something POSITIVE about our beloved Mother Nation? Talk is Cheap but actions speak for themselves. So let's just stop being ignorants and be proud of what we ARE: An African nation with its diversity, its own culture, a nation that has struggled time and time to just stay alive but never lost its biggest asset: PRIDE.
At last, it's time to stop being the "Arian Race" of Africa. We're NOT white, we're Capeverdeans, consequently African, just like Senegalese are Africans, or Morrocans are Africans. Let's stop being the laughing stock of the world, the white wannabes.
Um grande abraço a todos,
Lu |
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Guest
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Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:43 am Post subject: Re: Should Cape Verdeans Be Considered or Called Blacks? |
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The problem is that if you accept the definition based on the racism that is defined by the racist you will continue to be at a lost. The color code system is based on the premise to divide people on super-ego superiority complex. That is a game and the ethos of Europeans,Anglo Americans and the method used in South Africa apartheid etc.
This division goes back many centuries and it still is a tool that is used very effectively. That is the reason we are confused on this issue and we still fall into that trap. As long as the definition in the Webster dictionary
defines black as inferior and white as superior you will be stuck in the quag-mire of black and white which is very asinine to say the least.
Just because the racist define it that way; does it make it right?
Do you really think you can divide the world in only two camps of Black and White?
What about all the Brown people in the world?
What about all the Chinese what color would you say they are?
Think about this,you will find that this thought process of black and white
is basically found among the Caucasions-European,Anglo-Saxon.
It looks like those who are still caught up into this argument are accepting Websters racist definition. Well then, he sure has pulled the wool over your eyes. Any one who is still of that opinion must agree with Webster and is still brainwashed that white is better then black and that white is superior. For those who believe that; there is something wrong with your psyche just as it is with those who think white is superior to black or visa versu.
People are Irish,English,French.ItaliansSwedish and all the other variables of Europeans and they are proud of it. That is there psychobabble and psychoanalysis The (EU) that is European Union for Europeans. Just as we have (AU) African Union. Africa is a continent with many countries. In North Africa many fair skin or light, but they are from Africa. Many Africans are so dark they are almost blue and if you want to say black ok by me but that is not their nationality. For the sake of unity they are called by there nation and that gets broken down into ethnic groups or tibes if you will.
This is true about people from around the world. Everyone in China is chinese they also have many different ethnicity.
To get too the point Hispanics have their divisions and they are in many complexsion they are called by the countries name.
Cabo Verde is the name of a country and that is what the people are.
This whole question about color is based on racism.
We are Caboverdeans regardless what is our complexsion we are of the African identity. Those Caboverdeans who don't think so have their own head problems about color and racism. Just so that you will understand me;I LOVE ALL COLORS AND BLACK OR WHITE OR BLUE OR YELLOW OR RED OR GREEN ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL. If WE CAN GET EVER GET BACK TO Dr.Martin Luther King and too Dr.Amilcar Cabral and be scientific we would not have this problem. I know I can't convince you other wise because they got your mind but perhaps some day you will see the light of day and the darkness of night and know that they are equal in this universe.
Let me give all something that Malcolm X aka El Hajji Malik Sabban Shabazz said:"Just because cats have kitten in the oven does not make them biscuits".
My parents were born in Cabo Verde,West Africa, I am a Caboverdiano we are humanbeings. By the way it is only necessary to say one is African American without getting hung up on complexsion. Many Africans from many different countries and tribes were brought here as slaves,some came here as free men and woman and they too had slaves of their own.
Love to all Malice towards none. Listen to Cabral and King and try to make this a beter world for all peoples with kindness and share our morabeza. Deus,Allah,Ali. Morality,good conduct,Dignityand being responsible. Joy & Happiness.
Free your mind from racism.
"If it is wrong we will make it right and if it is not right we will fix it"
Cher'no Manu Sallah
PS. Go and visit The United Nations then tell me what country is called by a color. |
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Sallah de Azijah Guest
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:28 am Post subject: About calling one self by a color code system? |
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| Go on wrote: | I think we should discuss this topic because for example, I am a CV American from Fogo descendents; and I've heard some many confusing views about who Cape Verdeans are that I truly don't know how I should identify myself. And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Cape Verdeans like me in USA, Portugal and other countries.
Any help ? Who are we ? |
Yes there is help. I will get back to all of this and try to make what is wrong to be right.
No one of any nation or nationality should be called by a color.
That is racism at its best,and a method to divide people based on color by the definitons of those who want to be superior over others.
It ias the trick of the vil and the il or the thinking of the devil thought mind. There is an exp;anation for those who you this term.
People of Africa or Asia or Europe etc all have a name by which they call themselves. Call tribes or ethnic groups or clan or nationality etc.
Calling someone black or white or yellow or red or brown or pink or gray
does not tell you who they are.
Between the two USA, that is the United States of America and Union Of South Africa this term was used for the reason of definition based on superior and inferior.
For example there is no such thing as a black muslim and white muslim.
Those who use these terms are caught in a revolving door of racsim.
We are of the nation from which we come from not by the skin color,think about it.
I will get back on the subject but right now I must go.
To answer your question; Caboverdianos or any other people should not allow themselves to be tricked into the color code concept of the racist.
I will get back to you.
JUst because they say it does not make it right.
Let us be wiser then the serpent.
Humanity moral or immoral?
I will suggest that all get the book and read it.
Moral Man & Immoral (Society A Study in Ethics and Politics)
By REINHOLD NIEBUHR
mANU SALLAH |
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Manu Sallah de Azijah Guest
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonymous wrote: | To Anonymous who said, “What if you are a “white” looking Cape Verdean with blue eyes...
You, my dear should be called a Wannabe...you want to be white.
If you are SO white looking, but NOT white, the government would have placed some type of symbol on your forehead by now. Obviously you have some inkling that you are black, or you wouldn’t be asking. White looking is not the same as being white.
If you are so confused about whether you or black or white simply visit a southern state, some of those white folk will help you figure it out. |
To the person who calls themselves Guest.
If you see things only as Black and white then you have a problem.
In order to understand how that concept came about would take some explanation. My question to you is how do you define people from China here is the USA. How do you define the Native Americans or the many variables of His-Spanic speaking people who come in many different complexsions from many different countries? The historical analysis comes out of the hate and superiority of the definiton giving by the racist Webster's Dictionary.
For so long the Anglo Americans have used that term that white is superior,it became an insult to African Americans that they fought back by saying Black is superior from the black power movement in order that
people who are dark would not see themselves less. Black power versus White power. Because some caucasion have this problem should we be sick as they are in there wrongness. Does that make the people in the south correct because they say it. They also call African people monkeys but are we monkeys? Any one that acknowledges that certainly has a racist attitude. Will it make you feel better to be a racist? The system on the applications for race is all wrong to say the least. Black,white,brown,yellow,red,blue or pink should that be how we determine a nationality? Is there such a thing as White Muslim and Black Muslim etc ? Are the people in North Africa Black or White? It is a trick my friend. Don't be a victim of that kind of deception a fraudulent scheme.
As- Salaam-Alaikum |
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Manu Sallah de Azijah Guest
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Anonym. wrote: | | hei guys!! you think that this issue should be a dilema? i really think, this is noting to be a big fuzz like you guys want to do, of coarse cape verdean should be considered african or black>> we shouldn't have any doubt about this!!! have any capeveardean that consider them self white? if have, i have to say they are stupid!!ahh i know why have this issue,because some capeveardean has this idea because some fogo or brava's people have blue or green eyes.But people put something in your head, we are and will be forever BLACK or wharever you want to say, while we are in that island and we born there we will be african>> capiche!! |
Why can't we just be people,humans. Why so much fuss about what color people are? Caboverdean should be the name of there nation. Not all CV's have this notion. You have it all wrong; Cabo Verde is of the African identity,and of unity with the continent of Africa. Does that mean all people in Cabo Verde are Africans? There is a big difference in speaking about Africa as a continent which has many different countries with many variables of ethnicity. In order to know the truth the greater majority of the people if you must deal with a color are brown.Why then do we not say we are brown people? I can tell you the school I went to had a color chart and I think any one in there right mind know the difference between black and brown. This concept only has meaning among the racist. What you fail to admit is that you accept the racist definition. Black is a very beautiful color I love it,but so is all other colors. My friend forget this obsession about color and deal with the reality of the real problem which is morality and immorality. Those who think this way are violating moral principles. Racism is an immoral quality a conduct of wickedness. This is what Dr.Amilcar Cabral would tell you if he was alive today because it is what he said to me in New York when he was alive and at that time I was in the mind set of the Nation of Islam which some folk called Black Muslims. Trying to color code people is a misconduct that we must change but as one of our brothers has written it is not easy to uncolonize the mind after 4 to 500 years of brainwashing.Cabo Verde again I will tell you is part of the African continent and we have people of many complexsion male and female humanbeings and we are looking to change from the thought process of the colonizers of the past and of the slave mentality. We want unity with all people who are working for righteousness,peace and harmony,joy and happiness what we call morabeza. We want to move from the mind set of Ibliss ie the devil. That is the last word on the subject by me.
Happy New Year to all. Love to all malice towards none.
Boa Pas.
Knowlege brings Enlightenment.
Enlightenment to free ignorance and false beliefs or prejudice.
PS Just food for thought. Hawaiian Islands? What is America? Remember we have North America,South America and Central America,Mexico America,Caribbean America. Capiche!
Manu Sallah Omowali Mateus
Fiju de Cabo Verde Azijah |
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Azijah de Cabo verde Guest
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Should Cape Verdeans Be Considered or Called Blacks? |
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Perhaps we can make this more clear on the subject for those who have the problem of who they are.
First and foremost the people who were brought to this country some 400 years ago for most part were brought here from some country in the continent of Africa.What most of you fail to realize that they came from a particular tribe from a particular country. Such as Senegal,Gambia,Mali,Ghana,Nigeria,Cameroon,Congo etc.
So many different tribes such as Mandingo,Fulani,Wolof,Yoruba. The Rozwi,the ruling men of a group of Bantu people who lived in the southern part of what was Southern Rhodesia today called Zimbabwe; from Botswana and many other countries on the continent of Africa.
Perhaps what some of you should do is to read the book By my friend Alex Haley called Roots and the story of Kunta Kinte.
Kunta Kinte would not accept any label put on him but that he was an African. Some Tribes were brought from Goree Islands for shipment on the Atlantic Slave trade and some were brought from the archipelago of Cabo Verde by the many European ships. Portugal,France,England,Spain the Dutch and so on.
History is best qualified to reward all research. Providing it is correct.
There is His-Story and there is Our-Story. Roots will help you to better understand. Now all of these people did not speak the same language or had the same culture. There were many times they could not speak to each other for they had a different language.
Copying there slave master who spoke english, became there mean of communication. The vocabulary was limited.
After decades and to the present day they lost their original tongue.
Making reference to people only by a color is to demean and to demote and to demoralize. Many of these Africans were Kings & Queens, Prince and Princes. Chieftains leaders of a clan or a tribe or even a nation.
They were great artisan and people of craftsmanship. Some were great warrior. Now after 400 years of slavery and the assimilation and brainwashing well is not a wonder for all the confusion.
Now Cabo Verde was taking out of history;but do you know that 150 years before slaves were brought to the shores of the Americas that Portugal had Africans slaves on the archipelago.
Racism being the trump card for confusion and division by the racist has had hundreads of years in its negative fraudulent growth.
Today we find our African American brothers and sister wanting to be a part of an african country or a state. Many African Americans are looking for their roots in some country on the continent of Africa.
We see that some are learning swahili others wolof or fulani etc.
It may come as a surprise to many that there are those who want to learn Criolu. Being an African American is now becoming the choice of identity we hear most often then not. African Anmericans want to be African not a color,because they know the true value of being a person from Africa and not the game of the racist.
Kwanza is an East African holiday. we can thank Brother Mulana Karenga for that;we can thank Nobel Drew Ali,Hon Marcus gavey,
Dr.Du Bois the Hon. Elijah Muhammad and all the other fathers of Pan-Africanism. It has taken some time to get from the color concept to the reality of a land base actuality. Some people are still struggling with it but it is only a matter of time and we will all be saying Viva Povo de Africa and that will be a time in the future.
At this moment in our growth and development each country in Africa is working stubbornly to over come its problems. We have come a long way but we have a long way to go;that is why the OAU (Organization of African Unity) was a step in the direction for (AU) African Unity.
We in Africa know the slow process is one step by step which we say in Criolu Krung Krung. Patience is a virtue. As we say at home we are comming. There are so many to admire and to applaud Dr.Banda of Nyasaland,Sir Balewa of Nigeria,Dr. Jomo Kenyatta,Dr. Julius Kambarage Nyerere,Dr.Kwame Nkrumah,Dr.Amilcar Cabral,Dr. Aristides Pereira,Dr. Patrice Lummuba and so many others; and most important the Freedom Fighters who never get mention who gave their life for you and I to be proud to be African and we know that Africans come in many complexsions.
Nu Pintcha!
Manu Salah Omowali. |
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cabrala Guest
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Congratuions to all the people that shared their fellings, knowledge, and experience here in this very intriguing topic.
Almost everything has been said, so I Will not add anything new here, but I would like to leave few questions here as my brother said "food for thought:
Did you wonder why most of the people who came to the US after the slavery doesn't bother to call themselves or expect to be called blacks, white or else, except fot the European white?
Remember that we have blacks from Latin America, from Asia, from Africa, etc.(I am thinking color of skin)
A black or a white Spanish speaking person are called SSPPAANNIISSHH
A black Indian person are called IINNDDIIAANN or AASSIIAATTIICC.
Or, we should add type of hair too, because that's an additional difference between black people, right?
Oh yeah, we have other balcks too: the ones that according to the history of US were brought as a slave to America. They have been trhough alot and they are still angry.
Well, we can call them just "blacks" or African American.
Now everybody wants to have a definition of their ethnicity. We have these who call themselves sometimes capeverdeans, sometimes black, sometimes African-American and they want a definition for their own ethnicity.
That's enough!!!! Too much difference to deal with. They are all blacks.
Oh, I almost forgot. Some of the ones that are called American Indian are black color too, or red? Well, It does'nt matter anymore. It is not about color anyway. Don't believe in everything that you hear!!!
Now, Capeverdeans, where were we at??
AHH, I remembered. You want a definition for you guys ethnic group, ahh? But, you guys first have to solve that problem of which race you are because some of you are still in love with the color code system, some say they are white, some say they are black, some say they are capeverdeans. Get a consensus on that please, and then call me.
By the way, whose interest is it anyway? Did you wonder? Well anyway anywhere I go to sign any paper in the US, they want to know which ethnic group I belong to.
When I see a black Spanish person just like me I hope that we are both blacks, but he checks Spanish and I check black or African American. Not fair!!
Blacks and white(s)... hooops!!! white doesn't have "s" just blacks. white is an adjective and black a noun. cappiche?
Please laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We don't care what whoever thinks about what, or is supposed to think. We are CCAAPPVVEERRDDEEAANNSS and we help them understand their mistakes, and change their system to acommodate one more ethnic group - That's all. I can never agree with DR. Zack with his opinion that things can't change. Don't belive in everything you hear!!!!
We are the society of the future. Capeverdeans are the best aglomeration of race ever on earth. We are the prototype of the society of the future.
We have all of them in us. We teach them how it works.
Cabrala |
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Lu di Dulce Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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In fact the need of trying to define ourselves as white or black and anything in between shows clearly that we are a confused people who don't know who we are. It is ridiculous to keep asking and answering this kind of questions. We are Capeverdeans, with Afro-Asio-European heritage. All that makes us Caboverdeanos.
The same goes for people from other countries in Africa and other parts of the world, however they don't seem to have this kind of identity problem. The more time we spend asking ourselves this question, the less time we have to better ourselves.
It seems that in most cases this question is asked with the intent of positioning the Capeverdean people above our African brothers, thus accepting implicitly the idea of us being better than the Blacks and "almost" as good as the Whites. P I T I F U L, P A T H E T I C.
Again, to anyone who think that, it is time to study the African History (the real one). Africa is THE mother of Humanity and ALL things.
Other than that, have a KULTURAL Year,
Lu |
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Madiyaa Guest
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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: CV=BLACK? |
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| Quote: | Amilcar Cabral always says that he is a proud African. If you're light skined that does not make you white.If you're white and born in Africa you are African of European descent.
You must identify with the Continent of your origin. Cape Verde is not a Continent.Europe-European, America-American, Asia-Asian, Africa-African. |
I totally agree wit u!
I'm really astonished by what I'm reading here...I live in France and I never heard such questions before!There is one evidence for everybody:Cape verde islands are located on the Afican continent!Like Island Republic is in Europa as Japan is in Asia...
 
No matter what's your colour of skin!In every black country you have mixed created by colonization!Even in countries where humanity started:Ethiopia, somaly, Soudan...===>Here you can find people with light skin and long hair because the people have been mixed with arabic people... You have black jews too in that place. The culture is mixed, language and cuisine...
It's not because of that that we can say that they are not african!White south african of portuguese and british origins are african as well!Charlize theron and Tasha de Vasconceilos are africans... Like Dikembe Mutombo is too because he is from Congo, not because he is black! People from the magheb are not black but they are african!
Here in France we are considere as french of african origin, especially from CV's islands...As senegalese, congolese, comorians and south african are too!
We are proud to be CVean, proud to be from Africa and proud to have many different origins in our culture(and to have portuguese ancestors too, even though there are difficult circomstances)
The real question could be=Are CV US have to be considered as afro americans? I'd like to answer no but not because of the colour, but because of the history!CV US still have the culture of our country!the language is still speaking, music, culture is still present... But your children, and their children, will certainly mix with other "black american" or "people from the african continent".And I'm sure that the result will be UNITY
===>The more you mix, the less differences you see |
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Cv1403 Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Criolu wrote: | | Cape Verdeans are not blacks; they simply Cape Verdeans. That's it! |
people just need to shut up about bein african or portuguese or a miix because spanish people dont go around sayin im white indian european your just spanshgoddamn they made a name 4 a mixture of blacks and portuguese its called cape verdeans if they wanted us to say oh im african and portuguese they would have jut let us go through all of the trouble of saying it. |
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vagabundo Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: my two cents |
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Salah and Azija
i understand the thought of there is no black or white muslim. in theory that is beautifull. maybe you should visit the arab world. if race is not a subject of discussion in religion, why distinguish between being an Arab, Black, white.
i was in the middle east banging some heads in 2003. i saw many people who looked just like me. the people in the middle east have a disease called pride. they are never wrong, but will always tell you why their wrong asnwer is right. makes no sense. all these black power, nation of islam, or other groups focus on the african history. the names that most take is that of an islmamic or i should say arabi name. what does the name salah mean. the sounding of the names are arabic in origin. if you really want to know about african history, then go back, dont just look at Egyptian or Sudanese, or morrocan history. look at the whole, change your name to an African name. a friend of mine, born in nigeria had an arabic name. he studied in egypt for his bachelors and master. he went back to nigeria and changed his name to an african name. even in egypt there is a growing sense of moving away from history and interpreting it in a newer and Lighter sense (skin). i was in egypt for about 6 months. what i have read and witnessed about what some of you are talking about is totally the opposite of the actual life in the african continent, nevertheless we are entitled to our opinion and have the right to critisize. Try that in Africa and the Islamic world |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Vagabundo, I have a question/comment for you: You seem to be a very articulate person, as long as you write in English. Why do you feel obligated to curse and be vulgar in Kriolu? You wrote about your college degree with some pride and you should, however it seems to me that your cursing and lack of respect for the people in this forum come from an evident lack of home education. You seem to be in the military or something of that kind. Maybe you should take advantage of that to perfect your deficiency in that field.
Indeed how can a man be so articulate in English and show a cruel lack of judgement in Kriolu? Would it be because in your mind, the people in this forum don't have the academic level you seem to have or think you have? If so, maybe you should revise your way of thinking, and stop judging the book by its cover. Many of us could give a lesson or two about whatever you wish to discuss, whether it be linguistics, (many of us speak 4 or 5 laguages FLUENTLY, meaning read, write and speak).
It is very good to give us your opinion on any subject but remember, it would be even better to show some class and respect the people here. Please try to learn about the triangle of Maslow or Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Which phase is yours? Safety? Probably no longer. I'd say belonginess and need of love. Well good luck playing catchup,
Frutuoso |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Good, now we finally have a debate.
Let me respond to each of your assertions.
My ability to speak different languages is shared by a very large number of our people and I was only trying to make you understand that there are quite a few of us who, as you so eloquently did, can brag about that.
I believe that I am VERY articulate when it comes to approach ANY discussion or individual for that matter but when I read what you had to say about yourself, I had to interject some irony. Do I sound articulate enough for you?
I'm quoting you: "For the most part, when I see discussions, this is based on my observation, people tend to speak from a moral point of view, when confronted with conflicting views, people relegate to calling names or curse. I think at times I have done that myself. I try not to talk when I do not know the subject or I will let the person know that I am not prepared for the conversation." Well, it seems to me that there were a few topics not fully understood by your majesty, yet you gave your opinion, which is VERY GOOD and you resorted to name calling and cursing whrn you did not or could not answer. Do I still sound articulate enough for your Highness? Seems to me again that whatever you write is loaded with moral advice or comment. So much for critisizing other people on this subject.
I do not have any opinion good or bad about the military so I will not talk about that. I did not serve.
As far as education, (I was talking about Maslow not Manslow) like you mine came just like yours, from a multitude of sources, whether it was books, people of different ethnies and background as I have lived for 32 LONG years on three (3) Continents, traveled to many countries and got to know REAL people. I was merely commenting on what seems to be a very obvious lack of home education (the cursing, boasting, bragging and other I am, I do, show that) while complimenting you or your College education. Quoting you again: "my experience comes from dealing with people of different ethnic and or racial background, something that you might have, but not on the scale that I have experienced". Don't you think that you should inquire about my background before making this kind of assertions? Who's to tell you that I have not dealt with Satan itself or that my experience is not far greater than yours? See, you seem to carry with you a solid dose of rage. You are so self centered that everything should revolve around you, to the point that you cannot see the truth. EVERY single word that I speak or write is MINE but truth be said I felt the need to read everything that I could read to allow me to put words together, to construct a sentence and not make any mistakes. I can spend hours telling you stories that I lived, however this is not about me, I write here hoping that I can find people who like me, would like to see OUR country advance socially, technologically and academically.
And as opposed to you, I do not try to prove my views, I express an opinion and engage in a debate. When I cited writen words, I was just trying to tell you: check your facts before letting words out, could be embarrassing. And by the way you contradict yourself a lot. How can I cite Maslow and make you believe that HIS words are mine? Maybe you should try to be a little more ARTICULATE as to how you approach an individual to ANY discussion or debate. Articulate enough?
Last but not least, I left Cape Verde 32 years ago and I have not forgotten anything, nothing, nada, including the Portuguese language.
Oh by the way I have NEVER studied English.
Have a healthy reading,
Lu di Dulce |
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vagabundokriolu Guest
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: Never |
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you have never studied english, it just came to you magically.
Portuguese was not my language, that is one reason why i dont quite care for it. i should care for it because it is part of what we call cape verdean.
as far as your skills in articulating your point across, i think you do a bad job instead of actually proving a point. my points of view is to offer you facts and different view of an issue. i really dont want to go on the offense against you because i feel that it would to easy a target, so instead ill focus on two issues that i see here. advancement of the nation and or people, and race. i think the issue with race is setting us back a few hundred years.
ill offer some ideas on advancement, but lets not go on the subject of what you previously wrote because i think its mundane |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Never |
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| vagabundokriolu wrote: | you have never studied english, it just came to you magically.
Portuguese was not my language, that is one reason why i dont quite care for it. i should care for it because it is part of what we call cape verdean.
as far as your skills in articulating your point across, i think you do a bad job instead of actually proving a point. my points of view is to offer you facts and different view of an issue. i really dont want to go on the offense against you because i feel that it would to easy a target, so instead ill focus on two issues that i see here. advancement of the nation and or people, and race. i think the issue with race is setting us back a few hundred years.
ill offer some ideas on advancement, but lets not go on the subject of what you previously wrote because i think its mundane |
Indeed, I did not study the English language. However there's nothing magic about my knowledge or mastery of the Shakespearean Tongue. I'm what you could call a Self Made Man, in all aspects of my life. I handle French, Kriolu and Portuguese with an even superior ease. Is this a bragging contest? No, just to show you that there are quite a few of us who have the Natural abilities to do that.
I noticed that whenever somebody doesn't dominate a topic they tend to dismiss it. If I'm not mistaken, in one of your posts you were talking about your "fluency" in Portuguese. Now you don't care for it. Is it because you've been exposed?
As for my communicating skills, well it's your opinion. What can I say. You always seem intent on having the upper hand, especially when you know you CANNOT win, so let's talk about other issues as it is very difficult to communicate with deaf people if one does not know the Braille and/or the Sign language.
Please go ahead, go on the offense. I believe I have what it takes to respond. In EVERY department. Do you?
See, so far you've been spilling your venom instead of using your intelligence to "advance the CV cause" as you put it. Good God, you're an intelligent young man. Use that rather than blowing higher than your behind can allow you to (it's all about the laws of physics, young man). Stop insulting other people's intelligence. GROW UP.
Mundane. From you!!!! My God!!!!
I repeat, I have NEVER studied English. NUNCA. JAMAIS.
Now, how about trying to canalise your intelligence (see, I still compliment you) and join us in our journey to a better CV. Without all that RAGE.
Remember, a man who think with his heart is a man devoid of any FUTURE.
Open your mind and Everything will fall IN.
And these, ALL THESE are MY words. Words that you won't read anywhere else. Remember where you read these words first.
Frutuoso |
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vagabundo Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: huh |
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I am glad that you have taken notice of a few things here. But I think the premise of what you speak is called loaded language. you attempt to make your response look good by mocking or distorting the other side. I’ve noticed that your arguments are never clear and between the premises and conclusion. I am not about to give you an English lesson, I think that I say can be in all languages. You begin by loading your statements with words to imply one and switch to another term or topic to make your case.
| Quote: | I noticed that whenever somebody doesn't dominate a topic they tend to dismiss it. If I'm not mistaken, in one of your posts you were talking about your "fluency" in Portuguese. Now you don't care for it. Is it because you've been exposed?
As for my communicating skills, well it's your opinion. What can I say. You always seem intent on having the upper hand, especially when you know you CANNOT win, so let's talk about other issues as it is very difficult to communicate with deaf people if one does not know the Braille and/or the Sign language.
Please go ahead, go on the offense. I believe I have what it takes to respond. In EVERY department. Do you?
See, so far you've been spilling your venom instead of using your intelligence to "advance the CV cause" as you put it. Good God, you're an intelligent young man. Use that rather than blowing higher than your behind can allow you to (it's all about the laws of physics, young man). Stop insulting other people's intelligence. GROW UP. |
This my friend is arrogance at its best and although your argument seems plausible at first glance, it moves between different points to equate your conclusion of which I think is weak
Let me give you a counterexample of your generalization,
I HAVE NEVER STUDIED ENGLISH. Being born, education never must have been an issue because you must have been born with an inate ability to read, write, and speak all languages. That is a ridiculous statement
Your other part of what I quoted you is based on your analogy of who I am. You make a claim but you cant verify if it is true. That right there negates the rest of your argument since your premise is false. I don’t even have to go on the offense on this issue because you lack the source who is informed on my person. But ill tell you what, if you are in Massachusetts. Ill invite you to CESARIA or one of them restaurants (on me of course), we could debate on some points |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I am just as glad that you,ve understood a few things about me, but I do not load my sentences. It is the way I write, and as I said I,ve never used a word whose etymology escaped me. That being said, I repeat it: NEVER studied English, I came here 10 years ago and went to the University if life (lol) where I learned what I know about English. You could verify everything by just getting in touch with the owner of this site. He knows me quite well.
No my friend, I am not an arrogant person and if I tell you that I have never studied English, believe me I did not. It is not arrogance, it is a fact and I could point out a lot of discrepancies in your statements as well (realistically & objectivelly it is difficult to find many in mine but...) Again let's work together for the future of our beloved country instead of having personal wars on this forum.
Just one last thing: I personally know quite a few people who can speak an excellent English without having studied it, so I don't understand why you're so stunned. Now, when I say that I have not studied English, I mean I have not done it in a conventional way. I don't need a teacher to study nor do I need my knowledge to be sanctionned by a diploma to hold a debate in English. Gift from God, not arrogance. |
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vagabundo Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: vagas |
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my english is that of a high school dropout. this sharade of a conversation has gone on long enough. i am done with this topic. a question for you, what is your name? mine is henrique |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. Not a charade on my part, just a debate. Never intended to input any animosity. But you have to choose between having a degree, close to having a Master actually and High School dropout. Which is which?
My name is Frutuoso. |
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Manu Salah Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: Re: my two cents |
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| vagabundo wrote: | Salah and Azija
i understand the thought of there is no black or white muslim. in theory that is beautifull. maybe you should visit the arab world. if race is not a subject of discussion in religion, why distinguish between being an Arab, Black, white.
i was in the middle east banging some heads in 2003. i saw many people who looked just like me. the people in the middle east have a disease called pride. they are never wrong, but will always tell you why their wrong asnwer is right. makes no sense. all these black power, nation of islam, or other groups focus on the african history. the names that most take is that of an islmamic or i should say arabi name. what does the name salah mean. the sounding of the names are arabic in origin. if you really want to know about african history, then go back, dont just look at Egyptian or Sudanese, or morrocan history. look at the whole, change your name to an African name. a friend of mine, born in nigeria had an arabic name. he studied in egypt for his bachelors and master. he went back to nigeria and changed his name to an african name. even in egypt there is a growing sense of moving away from history and interpreting it in a newer and Lighter sense (skin). i was in egypt for about 6 months. what i have read and witnessed about what some of you are talking about is totally the opposite of the actual life in the african continent, nevertheless we are entitled to our opinion and have the right to critisize. Try that in Africa and the Islamic world |
Mr.Vagabundo. My question for you is this. What did you call your self when you lived in Cabo Verde? When did you begin to call your self by a color in order to descrbe who you are? I have been to the middle east,when I was there I never heard anyone speak of themselves by saying that they were black or white. When you say you have witnessed and what is opposite from life. Please help me to understand when did you get involved in the color code system. My friend I was born in the USA. A person name is what they are called weather it is giving by their parents or they choose to change their names, my name Salah means peace and prayer. Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali,Eugene Walcott to Louis Farrakhan,Malcolm X Little to Al-Hajji Malik Shabazz.
We have many African with Portuguese names are they Portuguese? We have many Africans with French name are they French? In Haiti they have French names are they French? In the USA many African Americans have English names are they English? Remember what Malcolm said "Just because a cat has kittens in an oven that does not make them biscuits"
The Native Americans (so-called Indians)and I have been on many reservations I have never had an Native American call themselves a red man or black or white man they all have a name of the Nation or tribe they come from such as Navaho,Sioux,Cammanche, Apache,Cherokee,Cheyenee,Lakota and here in New England we have Wampanoag just to name a few.
I do understand what you mean when in fact you speak about the color code system of black and white because that is the racist system. Which we all know is wrong. This is one of the areas we want to correct and to make that wrong, right.It is very interesting to note that much has to do with the geography and the culture you are living in. I have spoken on the subject many times and I will not be redundant. Again I will say just because the racist say it does not make it right my friend.
There is also a big difference in being an Arab as opposed to being a Muslim or a Christian,not all Arabs are muslims many Arabs are Christians.
It would seem to me that you went thru a lot of changes in the military,I admire your courage and I salute you for your service to the USA.
I was in the military when bigotry,prejudice and racism was something we had to deal with everyday plus to fight in an unjust war. I look forward to speaking with you face to face as a friend. I realy understand our dilemma but I know we will not be able to deal with all the issues on this forum and somethings are beter to be said face to face. You are a wonderful young man and I am sure that you are good Caboverdiano.
I know you want the best for the people of Cabo Verde for unity and progess and we do need you in our struggle for unity and advancement.
Constructive criticism and diplomacy goes a long way in our exchange.
I have spent several years in Africa. I do have a little understanding about the continent. My dear friend and brother have you read the book Roots By Alex Haley? You will enjoy the story.
I am non-denominnational I don't belong to any one religion but i am spiritual that is pertaining to the mind or intellect.
Un Te Fei nah Deus but for me DEUS means Dialectic-Eclectic-Universal-Science. I am in the efforts of self development and for a better personal enlightenment in my evolution and growth as a person,for good conduct
with the discipline of mind and principals for good behavior. That being said I will keep you in my prayers.
Thank you for your kindness.
Manu Salah |
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Frutuoso Guest
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Man this topic "a fait couler" lots of ink. It probably shows how passionate we CV's are. Everything has been said here. Everyone has tried to define the Capeverdianity in one way or another, and that is precisely the problem. Do we really need to define ourselves as Black or White or anything in between? Or should we allow others to define us?
Isn't it time that we spend this preciuos time for our and our country's betterment? Because when all is said and done, to the ground we'll go back and the "defining" the "finger pointing" the "personal wars" will cease, so my friends let's work together a little better. We've shown on this forum that we certainly have the capability of doing better things, if only we put our minds to it.
Um abraco bem forte pa nhos tudo,
Frutuoso |
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Guest
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: preto e bronk!!! |
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KATEM OT KOSA PA DISCUTI? |
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Guest
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Are we back to the issue about our identity with this topic:
Are American Blacks to be blamed for our self/group hatred? |
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Bino Guest
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Caboverdianus tem pretu, tem brancu. Por exemplo guentis di Brava li na Merca e na maioria Brancus e es ka ta considera ses cabecas di PRETOS. BADIUS e otus caboverdianus ki ta braca PAICV es ta considera ses cabecas di PRETUS AFRICANUS.
PUNDI ki nu ta fica go. Pretus o brankus. Kriolo ta mata si djomas di pretus, ma otus ke mesmu sucurinhos ta fica contenti.
Bom tema pa discuti, pa riola, pa manda boca, pa inguica cada kual...
E um tema bastanti contruberso... |
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Kakau
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 271
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bino wrote: | Caboverdianus tem pretu, tem brancu. Por exemplo guentis di Brava li na Merca e na maioria Brancus e es ka ta considera ses cabecas di PRETOS. BADIUS e otus caboverdianus ki ta braca PAICV es ta considera ses cabecas di PRETUS AFRICANUS.
PUNDI ki nu ta fica go. Pretus o brankus. Kriolo ta mata si djomas di pretus, ma otus ke mesmu sucurinhos ta fica contenti.
Bom tema pa discuti, pa riola, pa manda boca, pa inguica cada kual...
E um tema bastanti contruberso... |
Bino, maioria - esmagadora maioria - di guentis di brava eh considerado PRETOS na padrao di Merka. N'podi fla ma entri guentis di brava ki tem feitius(features) di branco "caucasian" eh serka di 5 purcentu - ka ta passa 5%. |
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Manu Salah Guest
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject: Cabo Verde |
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This is the last time I will make any statement about this subject.
The origin and the home of Caboverdiano people is
The Republic of Cabo Verde.That is the name of our nationality.
Cabo Verde is on the West Coast of Africa.
In Cabo Verde we are known as Caboverdianos.
At the United Nations we are known as Caboverdianos.
For the new immigrants when you came to this country,since
we have had our Independence 5 July 1975 your pass port said
your nation and nationality is Cabo Verde.
It never makes a distinction of what complexsion you are.
Now when you get to the United States Of America you find your
self in a dilemma. You are now in a racist society and they try to
force you to be black or white. The application form leads you to
say your black,white,Hispanic or other, plus some other nationality.
They don't have a box for Cabo Verde,oops.
Well Cabo Verde has yet to be put on the application.
Now all of a sudden, well look at me.
Dam I am dark so I guess I must fill in Black,no I am very light
so I guess I must fill in I am white.
The thinkers say there a place here that says other, so I will put
in Cabo Verde. You must fight for your recognition.
It is all a game of divide and conquer.
Many years ago they ask if you were a Negro they never asked
what color you were.
In the late 50's and in the 60's the Black power movement came into
play. So they no longer ask the Negro if your a Negro,but are
you black or white. Racism at play.
Now the same people who were American Negro yesterday know must say they are black regardless what is there complexsion.
Folk said I am Black and I am proud,now here comes the clash
White Power,Black power.
Black Muslims,Black Panther. Black black. Black Church.
Black is beautiful.
Ok we made Black a household word of acceptance.
Then the continent of Africa and the idea of Pan Africanism
is on the rise. Jomo Kenyetta (The Burning Spear) Of Kenya
Kwame Nkrumah (Osageyfo) Of Ghana there are to many too name them all. The so-called people who went from Negro to Black were
know going to another level thanks to Brother like Stokley Carmichael
(Kwame Toure) Mulana Ron Karenga who made Kwanza a household
celebration.
The word African was the key word and that was the challenge. Go from Black; a color to being African American. Being African American gave them some roots on the continent. Thanks to Brother Alex Haley who wrote the book ROOTS. (Kunta Kinte)
Today you will find the avant-garde that is the advance thinkers saying African American. They know that a color does not give you any roots
but being Africa does. The elite thinkers are moving forward to express their Africanism.
Some people are still caught into the revolving door of racism.Based on color.
I could write a book on the subject,but for you all who were born in Cabo Verde or who now live in the USA and of Caboverdian heritage and you speak criolu which is spoken in Africa,you should be proud of your Africanism and know you are Caboverdiano. Do not allow any one to play the game of racism about color; that is a matter of ignorance and stupidity.
The people who were brought here as slaves were Africans from a particular country in Africa and from a very nobel tribe.
400 years of brainwashing has caused this problem in the USA.
150 years before Africans were brought to the USA;they were taken to a place called Cabo Verde and a brainwashing went on in those Islands.
African forced to assimilate to the colonialist masters to what they called
the civilization process. In many ways we have suffered many similarities. The only difference in Cabo Verde we were only 380 miles from the home land. The connection between Cabo Verde and Guine Bissau and some other African countries was not lost. That is why Amilcar Cabral was able to make his point as an African man with Parents from the archipelago of Cabo Verde. While in fact he was born in Bafatta Guinea and went to school in St Catherina and ST Vincent then to University in Portugal he made that connection to show we are an African people.
To end this, please be a Caboverdiano that lives in the USA and be a good citizen with good conduct and be responsible, sober minded
and of good character with high morals with dignity.
Do not be afraid to enlighten those who do not know about CABO VERDE.
Help them to understand the new Cabo Verde,teach them how to speak your Language which is spoken in many parts of Africa and in many other countries for you can teach them about Africa since so many of you were born in Africa. Countries like Senegal,Gambia,Guinea Bissau,
Angola,Mozambique,St. Tome. With patience and with love we shall over come this barrier this obstacle of racism based on the color code system
to divide our people. Dr. Amilcar Cabral aka Abel Djhassi left a legacy for us to continue in our struggle for African Unity.
Be a African,Be an African American if you know what country you are from in Africa be that. A Caboverdiano,a Ghanian, a Guinean or a Nigerian or Ethiopian or from Liberia,Sierra Leone,Congo,Tanzania,Zimbabwe. I think I have made this very clear.
Stand up and be counted, be proud. As one of the great African man from
the West Indies once said;"Up you mighty people and accomplish what you will" (Hon. Marcus Garvey)
DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF THEIR FOLLY.
VIVA POVO CABO VERDE.
VIVA POVO AFRICA.
VICTORY IS OURS FOR SURE.
UNIDADE E LUTTA.
DEUS KU NOS.
MANU SALAH |
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Manu Salah Guest
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: Cabo Verde |
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This is the last time I will make any statement about this subject.
The origin and the home of Caboverdiano people is
The Republic of Cabo Verde.That is the name of our nationality.
Cabo Verde is on the West Coast of Africa.
In Cabo Verde we are known as Caboverdianos.
At the United Nations we are known as Caboverdianos.
For the new immigrants when you came to this country,since
we have had our Independence 5 July 1975 your pass port said
your nation and nationality is Cabo Verde.
It never makes a distinction of what complexsion you are.
Now when you get to the United States Of America you find your
self in a dilemma. You are now in a racist society and they try to
force you to be black or white. The application form leads you to
say your black,white,Hispanic or other, plus some other nationality.
They don't have a box for Cabo Verde,oops.
Well Cabo Verde has yet to be put on the application.
Now all of a sudden, well look at me.
Dam I am dark so I guess I must fill in Black,no I am very light
so I guess I must fill in I am white.
The thinkers say there a place here that says other, so I will put
in Cabo Verde. You must fight for your recognition.
It is all a game of divide and conquer.
Many years ago they ask if you were a Negro they never asked
what color you were.
In the early 60's the Black power movement came into
play. So they no longer ask the Negro if your a | | |