I appreciate the work that Mr. Kassel and others are doing on behalf of our students. As a teacher, I have had "older" students who were motivated to do well and succeed in this country. They deserve a chance to have an education. I have also had students who, because of their age were defiant and did not understand that by virtue of attending a "day" high school, they were subjected to the same rules that applied to a 14-year-old. They found the rules demeaning and beneath them because they were old enough to know what was best for them. In addition, the material that we used for the young students did not do the older students justice. Many of them have other issues, related to family (some are parents already), etc. Some needed to work all night and attend school during the day, which made it difficult for them to do well academically.

The high school in Boston is in the afternoon, which allows older students to work if they have families to support. What has to be done is a matter of equity, once again: the school for young adults should be of high quality and should include internship opportunities, etc. So, once again, we find ourselves dealing with schools of poor quality. It does not make the idea of having this school bad.
Perhaps we should be advocating for a better school, where the students are placed according to their age, needs and gifts they bring with them, as adults searching for a better life. Ambrizeth


On 4/23/08, euclides semedo <eucemedo> wrote:
Hi Phill!

I believe this is discrimination against Capeverdeans students

Euclides


"Kassel, Phillip" <pkassel> wrote:
Folks:

My email to Martine comes to you in something of a vacuum. Let me take a moment to describe the background.

In 2006 our legal aid office started getting calls from older Cape Verdean students who were told not to return to the high school. The reason given was their age. We investigated and determined that in two different groups, a total of about 13 students were called to a meeting and given this message. All the kids we met were striving students who wanted to finish school and make something of themselves. All were younger than the traditional 21 or 22 cutoff date and none had disciplinary problems. Some were clearly on track to meet local academic requirements. If these students could pass the MCAS also, they would get a full HS diploma, which is so essential in today's world.

We never heard of this happening to non-Cape Verdean kids.

We asked the District to enact a policy that would be easily interpreted and prevent unfair exclusions. A "bright line" policy, so to speak. It is fairly clear that state law requires Districts to let "residents" attend school until age 21. When the superintendent ignored us, we brought our clients to a school committee meeting to show the members that the students affected by the policy were not older thugs who could not be trusted with younger kids, but good kids just wanting to have an opportunity. I argued that I wished my younger kids would go to school with kids like my clients, who struggled so hard to gain advantages my kids take for granted.

The school committee thereafter enacted a policy that lets all kids attend school until age 21, and to finish school if they turn 21 in their last year and are on track to graduate.

Now, apparently, this policy is under consideration again due to a single incident. While some people seem to feel like there is a problem with older and younger kids schooling together, there is no evidence this is true. What we do know is that people who do not graduate high school are fated to live in poverty. We also know that separate programs, like one for older kids, tend to become dumping grounds. I firmly believe that an older kids school would have less competent teachers, large class sizes, poor resources, etc. (Something like the BB Russell School, in which kids of color are disproportionately represented).

I've attached a letter that we sent to the school superintendent and the relevant portion of the school committee meeting of 1/16/07, when the new policy was enacted for more information on this issue. I believe that keeping these kids in school is very important.

Thank you.

Phil

Phillip Kassel
Advocacy Director
South Coastal Counties Legal Services
1-508-586-2110 (x-25)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Cabral, Adriano [mailto:cabrala@bnhc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:19 PM

Subject: RE: older kids issue raises ugly head


Hi,
I agree its a hot issue to diggest. I caution, though, all of you who are the experts in the issue of Education to ponder on what are the interested parties in thesse issue and work on it sensibly. One thing I can read: many students newly arrived from cape verde many times find themselves stuck because of the mismatch of capeverdean education system and the American education system. In cape verde, people (students) are failed for not achieving the desired grade or level of proficiency and are dropped out of school. That is, the system cannot suport all the students until they finish high school for free, and students if do not respond to that standard, they will have to look for alternative schools (private), very expensive for many, Whereas in the United States, I guess, hardly a student is dropped out of High school if not because of behavioral problem or student own choice - someone correct me on that, if I am wrong. That is either because in US the system is more supportive of the families and students while is school, more resources available, more concern with keeping kids in school, or else when compared to CV. Whatever the reason may be, it is clear that many students who cannot continue in school in Cabo Cerde can/may be eligible to continue school in the US, the dream of many capeverdean parents who struggled to bring his her kid to this country to have a chance to succeed in their lives. Unnecessary is to ask why both system are not the same since it is so obvious.
That leave an open issue: Many of them (older students) come to US past the age that matches their grades. (age appropriate?)

What I belive brockton high school have been trying to do is adjust those kinds of situation since they recognize the nature of the problem. I know of students who "falsified" their personal documents just to get a chance to be in school and actually succeded after all. If that is the reson why older students are placed in a group of younger ones, maybe, I am inclined to support, this policy, or else, is there an alternative solution in which the cases of those students are accomodated? if the reasons are completely others, I don't know because I also don't know the nature of that problem. Lets consider all the interests involved and then act.

I hope we act!!!

Adriano Cabral


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From: Ambrizeth Lima [mailto:ambrizethlima@gmail.com]
Sent: Wed 4/23/2008 12:39 PM

It's definitely a concern, when 20 year-olds are in school with 14-year-olds. In Boston we have the Boston Adult High School; newly arrived students or students who turn 20 are automatically sent to this high school. I thought that according to DOE students are placed based on their age and not on their credit. Imagine if we put adult students with interrupted schooling in elementary school because they cannot read or write in their native language? In addition, a 20 year-old student should be learning material and using books that is age appropriate. Where does that leave the 9th grader? I'm surprised that Brockton hasn't caught up yet with innovative measures that address this issue. Ambrizeth


On 4/23/08, Gomes, Martine (EHS) <Martine> wrote:
Hi Phil,
Thank you very much for bringing this concern to our attention. I am no expert and nor can I speak for CVA. However, I certainly agree that we need to look into this matter further. I have cc'd this email to Leny, Sao, Aminah and few other CV community leaders who may be of interest. Perhaps the youth committee may be able to address to this....not sure. I would love to get some feedbacks from others on this list. Please share your thoughts.

Thank you,


Martine

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kassel, Phillip [mailto:pkassel@sccls.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:41 PM
To: Gomes, Martine (EHS)
Subject: older kids issue raises ugly head


Hey Martine:

I'll forward you the Brockton Enterprise piece. I think the CV community needs to respond. Who is best to talk to in your absence.

As for dinner, or whatever. I think the ball is in your court. A specific proposal?

Take care.

Phil


Brockton to review policy that allows older students to attend high school
Brockton's school board will review the current policy after a 20-year-old attacked a 17-year-old classmate.
By Elaine Allegrini
ENTERPRISE STAFF WRITER
Posted Apr 18, 2008 @ 11:10 PM

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BROCKTON —
Bill Gillis says everyone is entitled to an education, but there are some circumstances that may call for limits.
"If someone's old enough to buy alcohol, they shouldn't be going to a high school," said Gillis, who has children in both high school and middle school.
He joins other parents, and Brockton school committeeman Thomas Minichiello, who applaud the determination of older students to get an education, but question the wisdom of mixing them with younger teens.
Now, after a 20-year-old Brockton High School junior was charged earlier this week with assaulting a 17-year-old classmate with a pocketknife, Minichiello and other committee members want to review the policy that allows such a situation.
"There needs to be some alternative for young adults who are no longer teenagers than to be around children who are as young as 13," said Minichiello, the father of two students in Brockton schools.
The age difference that resulted in the assault charges is not unusual in Brockton.
At Brockton High, there are two 20-year-old students in grade 9. Most students in grade 9 are 14 or 15.There are 10 seniors who are 21. By senior year, grade 12, most students are 17 or 18.
A policy, adopted by the School Committee in November 2005, allows students to stay in high school until they reach the age of 21 or receive a diploma. Students who are 21 and on track for graduation may complete the school year, the policy states.
"We have to address it," said School Committeeman Richard Bath. "I don't know what will come of it."
Committee member Ronald Dobrowsky was in office when the current policy was adopted, but agreed it needs another look.
Fellow board member James Daley agreed, but said, "The law says we have to keep them until they're 21, unless they're in special education, then it's 22."
It is not a good situation for students, teachers or administrators, according to Peter Cannone, Bridgewater State College professor of secondary education and professional programs. He is a former high school principal and school superintendent.
"This is a developmentally inappropriate situation — putting these older students with young students," he said. "I can see where this is going to create some potential problems. Depending on students, younger ones look at older ones as role models."
Cannone said it is no different than putting elementary school children on school buses with middle school children and later putting middle school and high school students on the same bus — issues that have sparked opposition from parents across the state.
In Brockton, many older students are immigrants who have not attended school for several years, according to BHS Principal Susan Szachowicz. And others may have failed in other school districts and arrive in Brockton with insufficient credits.
Placements are based on credits, said Szachowicz, who encourages education for all.
"I want them to have the opportunity to go to school, I just want it in a different setting," she said.
Szachowicz is not alone in her concerns about overage students in traditional education settings.
"It's inappropriate for a 19- or 20-year-old freshman to be sitting next to a 14-year-old," said Superintendent of Schools Basan Nembirkow, who supports alternative programs for older students.
School Committee Vice Chairman Patricia Joyce said she may call a policy subcommittee meeting to review the policy, if her board members agree.
Though the state does not mandate local districts to enroll older students in traditional high school programs, the advisory that shaped Brockton's 2005 decision remains in effect, Department of Edcuation spokesman J.C. Considine said.
The issue of older students in high school surfaced three years ago when a group of Cape Verdean students protested their exclusion from school because of their age, said Phillip Kassel, advocacy director for the South Coastal County Legal Services, formerly known as Southeastern Massachusetts Legal Assistance Corp.
That led to the policy currently in place in Brockton.
Kassel admitted to a "little bit of vagueness" in the state law, but said Brockton's policy is sensible. He vowed to oppose any proposal to change the policy.
"If they did," he said, "they'd be on shaky legal ground."
Gillis said he is not against having older students in school, but enrollment should be determined on a case-by-case basis.
Steve Brown, father of three students in Brockton's junior and senior high schools, said it is good that the older students want to be in school.
"In this day and age, anything to improve education is positive," Brown said.
Elaine Allegrini can be reached at

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Phillip Kassel
Advocacy Director
South Coastal Counties Legal Services
1-508-586-2110 (x-25)