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PEACE & LOVE Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: Why are We Failing in Fighting Violence? What Can Help? |
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It's dejà vous all over again: gang violence and old turf among some of our kids are back to our streets and this time it has a scarier and more dangerous face: smarter tactics, citywide "avian-shooting flu" – or should I say, all over Dorchester and Roxbury -, more sophisticated weapons on the streets, less police at Boston Police Department, and a runaway Police Commissioner who'd rather deal with her own people gang turf in Ireland than with the black and immigrant bloods and crips in the city she much loves, Beantown.
So, are we fighting a lost battle? Why are we failing as a community? What can be done to change the course of things and win this fight?
Right now, a deep and powerful exchange of ideas is going on behind-the-scenes of the email network of Cape Verdean community leaders and activists. However, for their ideas to be fruitful, as Sam de Pina, an active leader in the community, pointed out, we should not confine ourselves and our insights to behind the door meetings among ourselves only, or to the underground email world. On the contrary, we should be part of the citywide coalition to deal with this issue because urban violence is not a Cape Verdean community damnation but a citywide problem beyond our control and power. In fact the Cape Verdean community alone does not have neither the expertise nor the resources to put down this wave of violence.
So, we want to bring this issue to you and ask for your help. Since this is a public safety issue, this debate should be in a public arena and you as part of the public should be in it, if you care enough to struggle for a safer and violence free neighborhood to live and raise your children.
Please, feel free to drop your ideas and suggestions here.
Thank you.
Related articles:
- Voz de Pais sobre a Violência na nossa Comunidade | Parent's Voice about Violence in our Community
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/viewtopic.php?t=586&mforum=forcv
- "Time to Reflect and Redirect My Anger"
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/ntopic136-forcv.html
- Violence in the Cape Verdean Community: how to Reduce it ?
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/about9-0.html
- Violence of one Generation does not Define CV community
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/about431-0.html
- Drugs, Crime and the Cape Verdean Dream in America
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/viewtopic.php?t=10&mforum=forcv
- 2 Cape Verdean Men Slain in Weekend Violence!
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/post-3012-forcv.html
- Violence claims a 2d son of activist: Victim shot in Dorchester
Link:http://forcv.forumup.org/ntopic269-forcv.html
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Sam De Pina Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: citywide problem = citywide solution |
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Hello everyone.
I agree with many of the short and long-term concerns Paulo raised in the meeting yesterday that unfortunately I was unable to attend. I also agree with Mila that we do need to come up with possible solutions to the root causes of the issues we need to identify or clarify. We are all intelligent, concerned, and active in our own ways and have many positive programs in place that do help many of the Cape Verdean Youths in the community. However, if we can not put personal differences aside and TRULY work together for long term solutions to the root causes of our problems then we will continue to be reactive in times of crisis and have some of the same futile practices.
I would also like to add and strongly encourage that it be mentioned at the press conference today that THIS IS A CITY WIDE PROBLEM. In saying that I would like to further express that it should be a city wide conversation that should be happening with all stakeholders- as opposed to the same Cape Verdean Community groups and activist meeting to address our concerns. We in essence continue to keep these issues within the Cape Verdean community, versus addressing them as city wide problem, by keeping the conversation between us.
As a recipient of the efforts of the Boston Miracle, I don't see many of the components that were effective at that time as part of the discussions we have amongst ourselves. The Boston Miracle was effective because it was addressed as a city-wide problem. Stakeholders included the youth, community groups and organizations from all ethnic backgrounds, churches, parents, business partners, probation officers, school principals and guidance counselors, street workers, the police department, city officials and state representatives working collaboratively rather than in pockets. We need to be in the conversation with all of these people at the table or make ourselves part of the conversation in the event that it is occurring without us.
Until we can include all stake holders in a dialog, create and implement a strategic plan, follow through with the strategic plan, reflect and revise the plan as needed, then and only then will we begin to have an impact on the issues effecting all youth in the city of Boston.
I am pushing the conversation in this direction and am willing to help ensure that it happens. |
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fr. ellis+ Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: Ego problem |
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Sam and everyone:
i am in total agreement with that which you (sam) have written, especially the part about being able to put aside personal (and i will stretch it to ideological and/or theological) differences. there is so much work to do that the widest possible coalition possible is needed to work agreeably to make a dent in the problem that our community faces. the losers that suffer the most when we cannot work together are the very people we seek to serve. even those who are not visibly connected with the community suffer too. as many of you know, in detroit, i am raising a young capeverdean man who hears the news about what is happening in our community in boston. it affects him - sometimes to the point of depression. he was most affected by the recent shootings which claimed alex's (i think i have the name correct) life. recently, he commented that with all the people and groups that want things to be better in our community, we should be able to something to make a difference. it's a shame that we are not doing a better job.
please - for the sake of those who will have the responsibility of caring for us when we are in our golden years, - let's get it together. call meetings that will gather the greatest number of "stakeholders" possible and begin to develop the strategic plan that will better our community. also - call those together who may not consider themselves "stakeholders" and remind them of a moral responsibility to be supportive of our community if they are in anyway "connected" with us at all. whether they do it willingly or begrudgingly, gather whatever support you can garner from them - and then use it to support our community. finally, support our plan - whatever it is. change is always a difficult thing to implement - but with our continued support and refusal to back down, some change will be made.
sam wrote: However, if we can not put personal differences aside and TRULY work together for long term solutions to the root causes of our problems then we will continue to be reactive in times of crisis and have some of the same futile practices.
with this, i am reminded of the sign musician/composer/conductor quincy jones put on the door of the recording studio for everyone to read as the musicians entered the studio for 1985's record "we are the world". his sign read, CHECK YOUR EGO'S AT THE DOOR. i know that i run the risk of people saying, "who the *%$?& is this man saying this to us - but remember - just a short 2 years ago - i was much more an intimate part of our community and at times, was a part of the ego problem. have our meeting!!! check our ego's!!! and let's work to save our community.
i am counting on you. i am praying for you. i love you all and my heart is truly there with you.
in Christ Jesus, i am your friend and brother
fr. ellis+ |
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Parenting Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I agree that the stakeholders should get
together and that the providers should meet
as well. But the people who really need the
information are usually not part of the conversation
or don't have access to the information that is
gleaned from these meetings. We need to get
to the parents. They are the key, becuase they
are the ones raising these kids. How do we do
that? That should be the topic of the next meetings
of stakeholders and providers. |
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Elias Monteiro Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: unity and hope in our youth |
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Good Morning, my Brothers and Sisters. I hope all is well with everyone. Great Job on the press conference. This is the resurrection of the Cape Verdean Community . We must let the roots of our people grow, not die out, specially the young ones. They are our future leaders what we put in them is what we get out of they. Don’t let anyone look down on them because they are young. But let us all set an example for our kids.
We have faith, well now we need the deeds. Our common purpose should be unity. No matter what happen to our Ego, Lets think about the kids. The fruit of the spirit is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHULNESS, GENTLESS, and SELF-CONTROL. Against such things there is no law. Let s put them into practice. T.G.B.T.G. Use me wild I am still alive.
Yours truly, Elias Monteiro
Community organizing .dbedc.
617-825-4200 ext 204 |
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Jose Barros Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:47 am Post subject: Press Conference Statement |
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Board of Directors:
Jose Barros, Maria Centeio, Sam DePina, DSNI- represented by John Barros, Verissimo Galvão, Alice Gomes, Northeastern University CVSA- represented by Emir Morais, Victor Monteiro, Vanessa Silva, Sister Antonia Soares, Tony Teixeira, Upham’s Corner Health Center- represented by Adelina Alves
492 Dudley Street Roxbury, MA 02119
Phone 617-442-6644 Fax 617-427-0069
CVC UNIDO Uniting Neighbors In Developing Ourselves
PRESS RELEASE from: Cape Verdean Community UNIDO
Contact: Denise D. Gonsalves
492 Dudley Street
Roxbury, MA 02119
617-442-6644
Date: May 11, 2006
Statement from the Cape Verdean Community
Read by Denise Gonsalves, Executive Director of Cape Verdean Community UNIDO
We come here today as a united community with one voice and one message: We want peace in our community. The peace
we seek is far beyond the absence of violence, but one that truly embodies love, faith, unity, hope, courage, justice and
forgiveness. We realize this type of peace will not happen overnight and cannot be achieved by a few organizations or people,
but instead must be an effort that is championed equally across the community. As a community, we will not tolerate the
violence of a few individuals that has jeopardized the safety and growth of others. As Cape Verdean providers, residents and
representatives from the city and other local organizations, we have begun to develop a comprehensive and holistic plan that is
set within the context of the violence that is happening across the city but employs strategies that are specific to the Cape
Verdean community. This plan builds off the infrastructure that already exists within the Cape Verdean community and brings
together organizations to work in a coordinated effort to achieve a common goal. It is an ongoing work in progress that will
change and grow over time. Within this plan we will engage community members, from children to adults, perpetrators to
survivors, those that are incarcerated to those on the edge, in actively working to create systems of support and safety and
structures for development. Working collaboratively with the city, law enforcement, mental health and social services, we will
work to surround the community with the needed resources.
Key to this plan will be support for parents. We will take the lead from those parents who have lost a loved one and know
first hand, the tremendous pain and devastating effects of violence. Together with our partners we will work diligently to
support parents, blanketing the community with resources and tips to help them open up better lines of communication with
their children so they can foster more supportive relationships. In addition, we will begin to develop groups specifically for
fathers which will run parallel to the mothers groups that already exist in the community, addressing their particular needs. In
order to make this successful, we are calling for all parents to get involved in their child’s life and talk to them about violence
and explain what true peace really is- not just out on the streets, but in their homes, at school, at work and everywhere else they
go. And for them to work to engage their children in building up our community and standing against those who are trying to
tear it down.
2
Starting this month, we will also begin to host consistent, safety meetings throughout the community to provide people with
updates as to what is happening and to identify issues and resources. In these meetings, the community will have an
opportunity to interact with law enforcement and other key services to identify gaps and develop systems for better care.
Through dialogue, we will be able to build trusting relationships that are critical to making a change.
Working closely with the Mayor, we will acquire additional resources to secure more jobs, especially for young adults that have
CORI records, providing them with support to sustain themselves and increase the economic development of the
neighborhood. We will also work with law enforcement and the Sheriff Cabral’s office to strategize increased supports for
those individuals re-entering into our community.
By standing here today, we are showing our willingness to be partners in the community wide action. Together, as a united
Cape Verdean community, we will continue to outreach to and engage partners, like those standing in solidarity with us today,
that value and respect the tremendous amount of knowledge and expertise that exists in the community and can bring
additional resources, both financial and otherwise, to bolster our efforts. Collectively, we will be able to make a difference.
We are calling for the media to stop depicting the violence as an epidemic within the Cape Verdean community but instead
accurately portray it as an issue amongst a small group of individuals. To strike a balance and report stories that articulate both
our challenges and our successes, so the entire community can see themselves reflected versus just a small percentage. To
present the issues of violence in the Cape Verdean community within a broader context of what we are facing throughout all
of Boston’s neighborhoods. And finally, to respect the suffering of families- giving them space to grieve in private.
Today, we are calling for everyone to get involved- especially parents, to be active participants in this process. This problem is
not a Cape Verdean problem, not a youth problem, not a provider problem or a police problem. It is our problem as a
collective community in Boston and each and every one of us plays a role in making this problem disappear. We ask that
everyone participate in this weekend’s Boston Peace Weekend whether it be through attending tonight’s vigil, the Teen
Empowerment Peace Conference on Saturday, the Louis D. Brown Peace Institute’s Mothers’ Walk for Peace on Sunday or
simply by wearing a purple ribbon as a symbol of solidarity for peace in our communities. The violence is being created by a
small number of individuals but it effects us all and will require all of us working collaboratively to stop it.
In closing, we need to recognize that despite our challenges, a tremendous number of positive things have been accomplished
through our work together with the City, across the community, across ages and across ethnic and racial lines. Let us not
forget to celebrate these successes as we move forward in peace. |
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criolo Guest
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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we need to take this to the street not talking about it or writing about it. I am involved in the walk for peace movement and we need more people to come along so that we become stronger. |
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neuza Guest
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:14 am Post subject: |
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A close family friend of mine died earlier this year, he grew up in the bean but moved to providence two years ago, while visiting his uncle he was shot because he decided to give the wrong person a ride home. he died a day later, 18 years old....it's really sad that we are killing each other and i agree its obvious we are in agreement with creating a coalition, now we need to actually put all these great ideas into action? whats the next step? |
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Imani Guest
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: Responding to Violence in our community |
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It is evident that people are invested in the safety and growth of our youth and our community. I agree that this is a city-wide epidemic. However, within that span, the Cape Verdean community has its unique issues and in that, I also support that a special focus be put on the specific needs of the community.
I agree with the press release that the negative news is far too often highlighted over the positive and productive achievements. Media outlets
continue to follow the gruesome protocol that 'if it bleeds, it leads'
I encourage that we begin a write-in campaign - for every negative report, community members, write in about positive events. You don't have to be part of an organization to send in 'good news'.
As a writer, I encourage people to send in announcements about upcoming events, inspiring stories, etc. I cannot tell you how many times we hear about community gatherings & events after the fact. You don't have to be part of a community organization to share positive and important events.
That the same representatives & groups are seen at the forefront of community issues, is not necessarily a bad thing. Seeing the same faces also tells us that people have been consistent and committed in their efforts. Let's join and support the efforts and enhance the vision.
There's plenty of room at the table and everyone's voice is needed - but -
we can't impact the menu if we don't come to the table.
As a caseworker for the Dept. of Youth Services, I do not see enough connectivity between Cape Verdean families and the judicial systems.
There needs to be stronger partnerships between community and social services to help support families, especially parents of youth who are court involved. There's good work being done by Bowdoin St. Health Ctr, CV Unido, CV Family Nurturing Program, DSNI, to name a few
but they need help. I rarely get calls from the Cape Verdean community, asking how to outreach and support our youth who are incarcerated or otherwise involved with DYS. Our cultural attitude of 'nos ku nos' works against us when it means parents and families are ashamed to reach out for help.
As a minister, I encourage our faith community to do what Jesus did: reach out to those in need - without judgement or personal agenda and help, wherever the voids might be in practical and effective ways.
The agenda of any organized efforts should respond to the needs of the community it seeks to serve. I encourage that community roundtables are held at times and locations that will allow community members (emphasis on youth) to attend and participate in the discussions, and based upon the most imminent identified needs, collaborative efforts then be organized to
respond.
I'm reminded of the anecdote of the monkey during the flood who tells the fish "I'll save you from drowning", then reaches down and lifts the fish onto the tree branch. A little bit of communication between the monkey and the fish would have saved the fish a whole lot of grief and the monkey a lot of wasted energy.
Our children are hurting. We need more mentoring and outreach programs committed to meeting our kids where they are. Our kids need tutors, mentors, sponsors for camps and sports programs, etc.
I encourage that we seek out more street workers and police who are familiar with the Cape Verdean culture and community, to work at that level to help squash beefs that may escalate into gunfire and death.
I also encourage the health community participate in the discussions and efforts, especially in ways that educate and enlighten us on how violence is being examined as a mental health phenomenom and how clinicians can help youth and families in these areas (counseling as early intervention, etc.)
School representatives should also be at the table. Teachers are often the first to see when a child is in a pattern of crisis.
Finally I do not agree that we are failing. We have more Cape Verdean youth graduating from highschool and college, than involved in gangs and violence. We have youth who are active in grassroot efforts to be part of the solution. We have people like Isaura Mendes who have shown by example that we should never give up hope for positive change.
I for one, will make a commitment to make participating in the dialogues and efforts that take place as we move forward, to make it a priority to come to the table. And I will not care if I particularly like the person sitting next to me or not, as long as I believe that he or she is also committed to moving us forward in bringing peace and keeping hope in our communities and saving the lives of our children.
See you at the table!
Pas |
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Proud CV Guest
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm tired of hearing about violence in
the CV community, or how CV community
has a problem. This problem is an AMERICAN
problem. These youth happen to live where
some of these issues and one of them being
violence is a way of life. CV parents or CVs in
general are not the ones bring guns and drugs
to these neighborhoods. So let us not blame
ourselves. |
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Sandra Guest
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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How can you fight violence and stop it in a country where the culture glorifies violence and rewards violent villans with millions of dollars for their bloodly movies, video games and cartoons?
America was born from violence and lives and profits on violence - The English people violently killed millions of the Native Americans and steel the land from them; the founding father used violence to take the country from the hands of Britain and get the independence; the South was forced to subdue to the North and join the Union through violence; the hollywood makes billions and billions of dollars every year in entertaining us with violent movies and shows; etc, etc . So, how can one really stop a phenomena that the general public is in love with? |
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Guest
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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by fighting it ! |
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(X) Unknown Quantity Guest
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:32 pm Post subject: new instructions to teach moral lesson a new science. |
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| criolo wrote: | | we need to take this to the street not talking about it or writing about it. I am involved in the walk for peace movement and we need more people to come along so that we become stronger. |
Walking and singing is good to bring attention to the problem but what is most important is what you teach in order to change the mind set of old and bring a new philosophy and mentality into being. What we need in a cultural center that deals with education and enlightenment. A place that children and their parents and our young people can come and be taught
how to Return to the Source as taught by Dr.Amilcar Cabral. Our people need to be inspired and influenced by engaging the intelect in acquiring
knowledge of the roots(Raiz) and the dignity and respect for our men woman and children the conduct of discipline and behavior. To understand the movement for our independence and for the liberation of our minds of 500 years of colonization and immigration to many countries and the assimilation process . Perhaps we need a new epstle or a new different didactic of instructions.
"Know the truth and the truth will set you free"
Dr X Disciple of Yashua (Christ Jesus) |
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(X) Unknown Quantity Guest
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: new instructions to teach moral lesson a new science. |
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[quote="(X) Unknown Quantity"] | criolo wrote: | | we need to take this to the street not talking about it or writing about it. I am involved in the walk for peace movement and we need more people to come along so that we become stronger. |
Dr.X says Walking and singing is good to bring attention to the problem but what is most important is what you teach in order to change the mind set of old and bring a new philosophy and mentality into being. What we need in a cultural center that deals with education and enlightenment. A place that children and their parents and our young people can come and be taught how to Return to the Source as taught by Dr.Amilcar Cabral. Our people need to be inspired and influenced by engaging the intelect in acquiring knowledge of the roots(Raiz) and the dignity and respect for our men woman and children the conduct of discipline and behavior. To understand the movement for our independence and for the liberation of our minds of 500 years of colonization and immigration to many countries and the assimilation process . Perhaps we need a new epistle or a new different didactic of instructions.
"Know the truth and the truth will set you free"
Dr X Disciple of Yashua (Christ Jesus) My epiphany of essential meaning
a manifestation of Christ. |
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DC Guest
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Unk. Quant. speaks as if the problem is within
us, as if we CVs were inherently "bad" and have to
work on yourselves. Violence in U.S., (not cv community)
and I say U.S. becuase it happens all over, is symptomatic
of environmental hazards in certain neighborhoods. These
boys FIND guns and find DRUGS where they live.
You would not let a house burn down without trying
to help put out the fire. Why are we letting drugs and
guns get into these neighborhoods? Why do police go
to homes and ARREST parents who are trying to discipline
their children the best they know how? Why does DSS
kick fathers out of their homes becuase they took a strap
to their sons and daughters who are disrespecting them?
TIME OUT does not work in an environment where the
danger of disobedience is hanging out witht he wrong crowd
and getting killed! |
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DrX Guest
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: new instructions to teach moral lesson a new science. |
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[quote="DC"]Unk. Quant. speaks as if the problem is within
us, as if we CVs were inherently "bad" and have to
work on yourselves. Violence in U.S., (not cv community)
and I say U.S. becuase it happens all over, is symptomatic
of environmental hazards in certain neighborhoods. These
boys FIND guns and find DRUGS where they live.
You would not let a house burn down without trying
to help put out the fire. Why are we letting drugs and
guns get into these neighborhoods? Why do police go
to homes and ARREST parents who are trying to discipline
their children the best they know how? Why does DSS
kick fathers out of their homes becuase they took a strap
to their sons and daughters who are disrespecting them?
TIME OUT does not work in an environment where the
danger of disobedience is hanging out witht he wrong crowd
and getting killed
Dear friends and relatives.
No indeed not I was not trying to say that CV'S are bad.
All that you have said is correct about the negative behavior and the ills and evil in the community thru out U.S.A.
What I think we need to understand is that we as people must help to clean up our act. We don't have to assosciate with the vile.
It is much worse now then when I grew up in Boston years ago,on the other hand we must find the path to a better life as opposed to drugs and crime. We all have choices to make. We also understand that poverty breeds contempt.
There is a very different social culture of behavior here in the USA in which a child, is aloud to be disobedient and the parents not allowed to make corrections for fear of the DSS or the law putting parents and children at odds with each other. What might be the solution to all of this pain and suffering. Do we have a cultural center that has a program to teach and enlighten our youth and the parents. We do have to work on ourselves because our salvation depends on the choices we make.
The law enforcement agency must do their job. We caboverdean young men and woman must report those who are selling drugs in our community. Drop a dime without giving your name.
Let us take another look at this. How do you think Amilcar Cabral would handle himself under the same circumstances. He proably would organize a CV Cultural Center for children to go too after they got out of public school to inform and educate both children and parents on the problem at hand. While in fact there are many good people at work;something must be wrong with the method we are useing.
Let me ask another question. How is it that the Nation of Islam is able to bring people out from the ghetto those who are dealers,pimps and the low lifers and help them to live a different life of doing right. Does the CV church have a new methodology besides the revolving door of despair.
Maybe we can learn a lesson from Minister Don Muhammad.
Perhaps we can improvise and over come,perhaps if we stop being imprudent and have the kind of ministry of responsible actions instead of worshipping the blink blink and the BMW. and all that night life. Put some serious time into strengthning our character in a spiritual evolution.
To have self control and sensibility thus avoiding impulsive behavior.
This can be taught at a center for the development of body,soul and mind.
Logic is a quality which provides consistency in attitudes appropriateness in the formation of ideas,and methodical thinking,this quality comes from the results of our spiritual growth and development. This can be done in a closed door policy for CV's.
It is not the fault of the child to be born in poverty and all of its criminality. There must be a way out of this dilema.
Get out of the soprano mode and super cool slick the cribs on TV is a fallacy,not a reality. Bad Bad Boys and girls end up in jail or sent back to Cabo Verde so they can make trouble back home. Think about it?
We can do better.
Peace
Azijah |
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DC Guest
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Dr X,
If the taxes I pay were going to the center that
you propose and not to IRAQ, I would be very happy.
I already do my share: I pay taxes.
There are no laws that say that parents cannot spank
their children. these laws only apply to immigrant parents
and we need to stop the police and DSS from doing this.
So yes, a spiritual center would be nice. I would love to join
you and ask Bush to redirect those dollars and reinstate the
programs that worked before. Cabral would denounce
the poverty, the environmental racism and hazards that erode
the spirit and render these youth hopeless. No one wants to live
with the thought that they can die any time. No one wants to live
with the fear that if he ventures into another street he might be
shot. When people understand that these youth are not enjoying
seeing thier friends die, that they don't want to live like this,
that they want help, then we will go to the POWERS THAT BE
and demand that center that you envision. I bet Cabral would
join Douglass in saying, we must demand because
"POWER CONCEDES NOTHING WITHOUT A DEMAND!"
Are you ready? |
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(X) Unknown Quantity Guest
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Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| DC wrote: | Dr X,
If the taxes I pay were going to the center that
you propose and not to IRAQ, I would be very happy.
I already do my share: I pay taxes.
There are no laws that say that parents cannot spank
their children. these laws only apply to immigrant parents
and we need to stop the police and DSS from doing this.
So yes, a spiritual center would be nice. I would love to join
you and ask Bush to redirect those dollars and reinstate the
programs that worked before. Cabral would denounce
the poverty, the environmental racism and hazards that erode
the spirit and render these youth hopeless. No one wants to live
with the thought that they can die any time. No one wants to live
with the fear that if he ventures into another street he might be
shot. When people understand that these youth are not enjoying
seeing thier friends die, that they don't want to live like this,
that they want help, then we will go to the POWERS THAT BE
and demand that center that you envision. I bet Cabral would
join Douglass in saying, we must demand because
"POWER CONCEDES NOTHING WITHOUT A DEMAND!"
Are you ready? | [b]
"POWER CONCEDES NOTHING WITHOUT A DEMAND" FREDRICK DOUGLAS.
THAT IS VERY TRUE. DR.AMILCAR CABRAL WOULD START BY MAKING THAT DEMAND FROM THE PEOPLE. THIS IS WHAT HE DID WHEN HE ORGANIZED THE PEOPLE OF GUINEA AND CABO VERDE IN THE UNITY OF P.A.I.G.C. WHY? BECAUSE HE HAD MADE ALL THE DEMANDS FROM THE POWER OF THE GOVERNMENT IN POWER BUT THEY REFUSED. OUR MONEY WENT TO PAY TAXES THEN TOO,BUT CABRAL SAW THAT THE THOSE IN POWER DID NOT TAKE HEED TO OUR DEMANDS NOR DID THEY REALLY HAVE A SOLUTION TO OUR PROBLEM,TAKE A GOOD LOOK, OUR PROBLEMS MAKE MONEY FOR THE SYSTEM WHILE THOSE WHO CONTROL MAKE GOOD SALARIES AND PAY LIP SERVICE IN THE HOUSE
ON BEACON STREET. I KNOW I HAVE WORKED IN THAT SYSTEM.
MAKING DEMANDS TO WHOM AND WHAT FOR? THERE ARE SO MANY GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS AND ANGENCIES,THERE ARE POSITION THAT ARE CREATED TO HELP IN THE COMMUNITY AND MONEY BEING SPENT TO TRY TO ERRADICATE THE PROBLEMS.TO WHAT AVAIL?
THE SYSTEM OF CRIMINALITY IS PART AND PARCEL OF THE FRABRIC OF THIS SO-CALLED DEMOCRACY. THIS PROBLEM IS ONGOING;AND HAS BEEN; BEFORE THE POPULATION OF CABOVERDIANOS HAVE INCREASED
IN GREAT NUMBERS IN THE LAST 40 YEARS.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW. TO MAKE THIS SHORT, ASK OUR AFRICAN AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS QUESTION. THE COMMUNITIES IN DORCHESTER,UPHAMS CORNER,ROXBURY,JAMAICA PLAINS,GROVE HALL,DUDLEY, ETC.
TO GET TO THE REAL FOLK WHO CAN TELL YOU THE PROBLEM BETTER THEN THE NEWLY ARRIVED POPULATION THE NATION OF ISLAM HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS SICK PROBLEM IN A SICK SOCIETY THROUGH OUT THE LARGE CITIES IN THE USA FOR MORE THE 70 YEARS AND MANY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN AS SUCCESSFUL AS THE NATION OF ISLAM NOW UNDER THE DIRECTION OF MINISTER LOUIS FARRAKHAN AND NOW MINISTER DON MUHAMMAD IN BOSTON.
YES WE CAN DO BETTER. I WILLTRY TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT.
OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO BRING PEACE AND TO ENSURE PROGRESS AND HAPPINESS FOR OUR PEOPLE. CABRAL WOULD SAY THIS ,WE MUST NOT RELY UPON THE GOVERNMENT, FOR WHAT WE MUST DO FOR OURSELVES.
"THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR BUT FEAR ITSELF." F.D.R.
WE MUST CREATE OUR OWN PARTY AND OUR OWN MOVEMENT.
WE MUST UNDERSTAND WHAT A TRUE DEMOCRACY MEANS IN ITS BEST MEANING WHICH FROM THE GREEKS MEAN PEOPLE RULE. NOT DEMON RULE.
IT IS TRUE THAT WE HAVE GAINED INDEPENDENCE BUT WE HAVE NOT COMPLETLY LIBERATED OUR MINDS. HOW DOES THAT TRANSLATE HERE IN THE USA?
WE FIND THAT THERE ARE MANY CONTRADICTIONS IN OUR COMMUNITY. IT IS ESSENTIAL TO MAKE A GREAT EFFORT TO HAVE A SINGLE ORGANIZATION FOR OUR STRUGGLE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
THIS OUGHT TO BE THE FIRST LINE DRAWN ON THE BASIS OF ANALYZING OUR SPECIFIC SITUATION. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY A CABO VERDE CULTURAL CENTER AKA SPIRITUAL CENTER THAT TAKES OUT OF THE FOLLY, THAT IS TO SAY THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND FOOLISH ACTIONS WHICH ONLY SERVES THOSE IN POWER.
THAT MY FRIENDS, BROTHERS AND SISTER IS THE REVOLVING DOOR OF DESPAIR.
CABRAL WOULD INDEED DENOUNCE ALL THAT YOU SAY.
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE DRUGS AND IN CRIME AND SHOOTINGS ARE VICTIMS THEMSELVES OF A SYSTEM THAT BREEDS
VIOLENCE AND HATE THEY ARE PAWNS IN THE WICKEDNESS. THEY TO NEED TO BE SAVED.
THAT IS WHY FROM THE START DR.AMILCAR CABRAL FORMULATED THE PARTY TO SET US ON A COURSE OF VICTORY. THE BEST COURSE IS TO BE ORGANIZED. BUT HOW DO WE ORGANIZE. DEMAND FIRST FROM OUR PEOPLE THAT WE MAKE A CHANGE IN FIGHTING AGAINST OUR OWN WEAKNESES THAT IS THE FIRST REVOLUTION IN OUR EVOLUTION .
WE MUST TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS IN PRIVATE. JUST TAKE A PAGE FROM THE NATION OF ISLAM. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY DO WHICH MAKES THEM SUCCESFUL.
YES WE MUST DEVELOP OUR OWN STRATEGY IN THE SCIENCE OR ART OF PLANNING AND DIRECTING OUR OWN COURSE OF ACTION IN BEING GOOD CITIZENS AND WORKING WITHIN THE LAW OF RIGHT AND JUSTICE AND EQUAL PARTNERS WITH OUR GOOD NEIGHBORS.
LET ME SHARE SOME THOUGHTS WITH YOU. THERE ARE HEROES AND THERE ARE HEROES. TO MANY TO MENTION;BUT JUST THINK OF THE NAME CRISPUS ATTUCKS, DR WILLIAM .E.B.DU BOIS, HON.MARCUS GAVEY,HON ELIJAH MUAMMAD,DR.JOEL A.ROGERS, DR.MARTIN LUTHER KING,ROSA PARKS, DRUSILLAH DUNJEE HOUSTON,MALCOLM X,MINISTER LOUIS FARRAKHAN,DR AMILCAR CABRAL JUST TO NAME A FEW.
THERE ARE ALSO SO MANY GRASS ROOTS PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD EVERY DAY WHO DO NOT GET ANY RECOGNITION,THEY ARE THE
RESPONSIBLE WORKING MOTHERS AND FATHERS,SISTERS AND BROTHERS WHO ARE AMONG THE MOST PRAISEWORTHY FOR THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS THEY MAKE AT HOME AND AT SCHOOL,WHO ENCOURAGE AND PROMOTE INTELLECTUAL AND SPIRITUAL EXCHANGE AMONG THE PEOPLE AND WHO MAKE EVERY EFFORT TOWARDS THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE LIVING STANDARDS IN A COMMUNITY IN PERIL.
WE SALUTE YOU IN YOUR ACTION AND FULFILLMENT OF DUTY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS & RESPONSIBILITY. THOSE OF YOU WHO KEEP YOUR THOUGHTS PURE,CLEAN AND UNCONTAMINATED.
IF ANY THING I HAVE SAID MAKES ANY SENSE IF YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF SUCH A NEW ORGANIZATION,PLEASE BE IN TOUCH WITH THE CONSULATE GENERAL OFFICE IN BOSTON AND THEY WILL DIRECT YOUR PATH TO THOSE WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH ALL OF YOU FOR PEACE. REMEMBER WE MUST CHANGE. WE HAVE OUR OWN HEADS TO THINK WITH.
WHEN WE MAKE OUR COMMUNITY BETTER WE MAKE AMERICA BETTER AND THAT IS OUR CONTRIBUTION TO THE DREAM THAT MARTIN LUTHER kING SPOKE ABOUT,TO MAKE OUR COMMUNITY SAFE IS TO MAKE AMERICAN SAFE. POWER TO THE GOOD PEOPLE
AMERICA AMERICA GOD SHED HIS GRACE ON THEE!
PEACE.
THANK YOU.
GRACA DE DEUS
DEUS KU NOS
HERE IS SOMETHING THAT CABRAL SAID IN HIS BOOK.UNITY & STRUGGLE.
DR.CABRAL WROTE." THE TIME IS PAST WHEN IT WAS NECESSARY TO SEEK ARGUMENTS TO PROVE CULTURAL MATURITY OF AFRICAN PEOPLES. THE IRRATIONALITY OF THE RACIST'THEORIES'
OF A GOBINEAU OR A LEVY-BRUHL NEITHER INTERESTS NOR PERSUADES ANYONE BUT RACISTS. IN SPITE OF COLONIAL DOMINATION (AND PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THIS DOMINATION) AFRICA HAS BEEN ABLE TO IMPOSE RESPECT FOR HER CULTURAL VALUES.
FROM CARTHAGE OR GIZA TO ZIMBABWE,FROM MEROR TO BININ AND IFE,FROM THE SAHARA OR TIMBUCTOO TO KILWA, ACROSS THE IMMENSITY AND DIVERSITY OF THE CONTINENT'S NATURAL CONDITIONS,THE CULTURE OF AFRICAN PEOPLES IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT: IN WORKS OF ART AS IN ORAL AND WRITTEN TRADITIONS, IN COSMOGONY AS IN MUSIC AND DANCES,IN RELIGION AND CREEDS AS IN DYNAMIC EQUILIBRIUM OF ECONOMIC, POLITICAL AND SOCIAL STRUCTURES THAT AFRICA MAN HAS BEEN ABLE TO CREATE.
IF THE UNIVERSAL VALUE OF AFRICAN CULTURE IS NOW AN ICONTESTABLE FACT, IT SHOULD NOT, HOWEVER, BE FORGOTTEN THAT AFRICAN MAN,WHOSE HANDS, AS THE POET SAID,'HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION STONES OF THE WORLD', HAS DEVELOPED HIS CULTURE,
IF NOT ALWAYS, HOSTILE CONDITIONS: FROM DESERTS TO EQUATORIAL FORESTS, FROM COASTAL MARSHES TO BANKS OF THE GREAT RIVERS SUBJECT TO FREQUENT FLOODING, THROUGH AND AGAINST ALL DIFFICULTIES, INCLUDING SCOURGES WHICH DESTROY NOT ONLY PLANT AND ANIMALS BUT MAN AS WELL.
IN AGREEMENT WITH BASIL DAVIDSON AND OTHER RESEARCHERS OF AFRICAN SOCIETYS AND CULTURES, WE CAN SAY THAT THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE AFRICAN GENIUS ON THE ECONOMIC, POLITICAL AND CULTURAL LEVELS, IN THE LIGHT OF THE INHOSPITABLE
CHARACTER OF THE ENVIRONMENT, ARE AN ACHIEVMENT TO BE RANKED WITH THE MAJOR HISTORICAL EXAMPLE OF THE GREATNESS OF MAN" (CABRAL)
THIS SHOULD GIVE US ALL SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IN A NEW ANALYTICAL APPROACH.
P.A.I.G.C. THAT BROUGHT UNITY IN OUR STRUGGLE FOR INDEPENDENCE AND THE UNITY OF GUINEA & CABO VERDE.
PARTY OF AFRICAN INDEPENDENCE OF GUINEA E CABO VERDE.
THAT COULD ALSO SERVE AS A BASE FOR UNITY HERE IN BOSTON IF WE PUT THE KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM IN THE RIGHT PLACE.
P.A.I.G.C
THE SPIRITUALITY: PROVIDENCE ALMIGHTY IN GOD CHRIST.
WE SHALL NOT FAIL; VICTORY IS OUR FOR SURE, BUT WE MUST UNITE.
IF SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS.
WE FACE AN ALTERNATIVE. EITHER THEY ARE NOT THE PEOPLE WHO WANT PEACE AND HARMONY. WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING AGAINST THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. BUT FOR THOSE WHO DEEPLY IN THEIR HEARTS
AND CONSCIOUSNESS OF CHRIST AND CABRAL WANT THE CHANGE FOR PEACE JOY AND HAPPINESS WE MUST HAVE THIS CENTER WHICH
WILL UNITE OUR PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL. NAH SPIRITO DE DEUS.
YOU ASK AM I READY I HAVE BEEN READY ARE YOU WILLING TO FOLLOW IN THIS THOUGHT TO MAKE THE SACRIFICE A WARRIOR FOR PEACE. |
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Manu Sallah Guest
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Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: Re: IN CHRIST JESUS! |
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| fr. ellis+ wrote: | sam and everyone:
i am in total agreement with that which you (sam) have written, especially the part about being able to put aside personal (and i will stretch it to ideological and/or theological) differences. there is so much work to do that the widest possible coalition possible is needed to work agreeably to make a dent in the problem that our community faces. the losers that suffer the most when we cannot work together are the very people we seek to serve. even those who are not visibly connected with the community suffer too. as many of you know, in detroit, i am raising a young capeverdean man who hears the news about what is happening in our community in boston. it affects him - sometimes to the point of depression. he was most affected by the recent shootings which claimed alex's (i think i have the name correct) life. recently, he commented that with all the people and groups that want things to be better in our community, we should be able to something to make a difference. it's a shame that we are not doing a better job.
please - for the sake of those who will have the responsibility of caring for us when we are in our golden years, - let's get it together. call meetings that will gather the greatest number of "stakeholders" possible and begin to develop the strategic plan that will better our community. also - call those together who may not consider themselves "stakeholders" and remind them of a moral responsibility to be supportive of our community if they are in anyway "connected" with us at all. whether they do it willingly or begrudgingly, gather whatever support you can garner from them - and then use it to support our community. finally, support our plan - whatever it is. change is always a difficult thing to implement - but with our continued support and refusal to back down, some change will be made.
sam wrote: However, if we can not put personal differences aside and TRULY work together for long term solutions to the root causes of our problems then we will continue to be reactive in times of crisis and have some of the same futile practices.
with this, i am reminded of the sign musician/composer/conductor quincy jones put on the door of the recording studio for everyone to read as the musicians entered the studio for 1985's record "we are the world". his sign read, CHECK YOUR EGO'S AT THE DOOR. i know that i run the risk of people saying, "who the *%$?& is this man saying this to us - but remember - just a short 2 years ago - i was much more an intimate part of our community and at times, was a part of the ego problem. have our meeting!!! check our ego's!!! and let's work to save our community.
i am counting on you. i am praying for you. i love you all and my heart is truly there with you.
in Christ Jesus, i am your friend and brother
fr. ellis+ |
Dear Brother ellis
I am with you in Christ Jesus a friend and a Brother.
Read Roman chp.11 verse 11 thru 24 then Romans 12 chapter
2nd Peter chp.1 12 verse thru 21
In Yashua Emanuel Jesus Christ we can find salvation.
Manu Salah Mateus |
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Good Parenting Guest
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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A Black Man Thinking (ABMT), Volume One
That problem child of yours is not the problem. YOU are the problem with your child and YOU are the solution.
In his new book, A Black Man Thinking (ABMT), Volume One – Raising Children, Mr. Arthur provides basic insights regarding parenting, particularly but not solely for black parents.
ABMT takes a look at the difficulties in raising children in the information age and provides concise steps so you can make a difference in a child’s life.
Buy the book at ablackmanthinking.com |
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Mario Guest
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Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is not a promotion center but if you want to understand whats going on with the kids go see a this documentary film Street Soldiers at the Strand Theater, Friday June 30th.
Back in 2003 after Cladio Cardoso was murdered in Dorchester a group of us from different Blocks United and we opened a line of communication in order to put out fights before it turned deadly. A film production team wanted to document it and this film will prove that we are sincere but we are still working on ourselves.
We are not promoting gangs, guns, or violence. We just want to try and help our community. We are telling the history, our present state, and proposing a plan at the end of the film.
A portion of the proceeds will go towards The Louis D. Brown Peace Institute, a program that helps families of homicide victims. Another portion will go towards The Floor Lords Movement Inc, a after school program that teachs hip hop art and dancing. We're past the talking stage.
Come and support us. |
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Tony Pretu Guest
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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to piggy back on Mario's point of being past the talking stage:
There are many people working towards peace. However, not many of us can reach the demographic that Mario can reach. With that being said, we need to do whatever we can to support those who do a service that we cannot. I like to begin by being able to relate, and that comes with education.
Come check out the film and get educated on what's really going on if you don't really know. |
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PEACE & LOVE Guest
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Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: |
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The Cape Vedean Community leaders and Providers from Boston had a productive meeting with the embassor Brito yesterday, where they discuss the issue about ways to reduce gang violence in our community and its impact in Cape Verde.
Great ideas and project are on the way. Be sure that brighter days will soon come for our community.
God bless the Cape Verdean parents, our kids, our community and everybody else. |
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Cinderella Guest
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Sometimes u try to help those in need and they don't want your help, or sometimes u just want to pray that u waken with a day of only good news. How many of us will stand up for what we believe in even if it hurts us. God has been good to so many of us and yet we take this life and other people's lives forsake. Can we say I'm proud to be cape verdean, proud to be a citizen or just proud to be in my city were I reside. Unfortunately, I'm sure there is atleast one of these that we can admit we are not so sure about. Which one are you? and why? is that.. God Bless u.. |
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CV Watch Dog
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 20
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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I heard from the grapevine today that up to two weeks ago, there has been about 69 shooting deaths in Boston, from which 35 of victims are Cape Verdeans. I dropped my jaw in shock  !
Sad to say, if this are in fact true, it is an embarrassment for the Cape Verdean community. Gee, where are we heading up to? |
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Kakau
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 313
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Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CV Watch Dog wrote: | I heard from the grapevine today that up to two weeks ago, there has been about 69 shooting deaths in Boston, from which 35 of victims are Cape Verdeans. I dropped my jaw in shock !
Sad to say, if this are in fact true, it is an embarrassment for the Cape Verdean community. Gee, where are we heading up to? |
"grapevine" is an english word for what in Kriolu would translate as "boka di mundo" "fla fla", in other words, very unreliable sources. That's why you always have to look for the official sources. On that note, here's the BPD list of every homicide victim in Boston as of December 8th, 71 victims to be exact. And going by the last names as a possible determiner of Cape Verdean origin, the total number of CV victims would be 11, not 35.
Julio Ceus, 01/08/06, Allston
2 Natalie Sumner, 01/08/06, Allston
3 Paulo Goncalves, 01/29/06, Mattapan
4 Kalvin Duarte, 01/31/06, Mattapan
5 Herberto Brito, 02/10/06, Dorchester
6 Ismael Delvalle, 02/10/06, Mattapan
7 Chudney Frazier, 02/21/06, Dorchester
8 Kenneth Whitley, 03/13/06, Dorchester
9 Frederick Montgomery, 03/13/06, Mission Hill
10 David Hall, 04/07/06, South,End
11 Guilairdo Monteiro Rodrigues, 04/07/06, Dorchester
12 Velveena Baskin, 04/15/06, East Boston
13 Eric Johnson, 04/17/06, Mattapan
14 Kevin Lee, 04/19/06, Mattapan
15 Dominique Samuels, 04/30/06, Jamaica Plain
16 Erik Thomas, 04/30/06, Roxbury
17 Marcus Heard, 05/03/06, Dorchester
18 Steven Sydney, 05/04/06, Mattapan
19 Wellington Demaisonet, 05/05/06, Dorchester
20 Louis DeSouto, 05/06/06, Dorchester
21 Alex Mendes, 05/07/06, Dorchester
22 Allen McNeal, 05/18/06, Dorchester
23 Marc D. Wilson, 05/27/06, Dorchester
24 Dwayne Turnbow, 05/30/06, Dorchester
25 Keith Payne, 06/01/06, Dorchester
26 Gregory Josey, 06/07/06, Dorchester
27 Kenny Murray, 06/07/06, Dorchester
28 Rashaan Dowman, 06/10/06, Dorchester
29 Nhuan Nguyen, 06/12/06, Dorchester
30 James Green, 06/13/06, Dorchester
31 Manny Dupont, 06/16/06, Hyde Park
32 Roy Elliott, 06/19/06, North Station
33 Ronald Perry, 06/22/06, Roxbury
34 Craig Smith, 06/24/06, Dorchester
35 Abdirauf Abdullahi, 06/25/06, South End
36 Jaziel Angel Ponce Rosa, 06/26/06, Dorchester
37 Herman Taylor,III, 07/12/06, Roxbury
38 William Taylor, 07/15/06, Fenway
39 Dawuan Fletcher, 07/16/06, Roxbury
40 Tom Hall, Jr., 07/16/06, Dorchester
41 Hilary Page Green, 07/21/06, Dorchester
42 Annalicia Perry, 07/22/06, Roxbury
43 Derek Williams, 07/22/06, Dorchester
44 Antoine Perkins, 07/22/06, Mattapan
45 Joseph Gardy, 07/19/06, Mattapan
46 Vernon Cobb, 07/26/06, Roxbury
47 Alberto Duarte, 07/27/06, South Boston
48 Chucuma Omar Browning, 08/01/06, Dorchester
49 Alray Taylor, 08/31/06, Hyde Park
50 Ronald Dujour, 09/08/06, Dorchester
51 Kenneth Hall, 09/13/06, Roxbury
52 Carlos E. Borrero,Jr., 09/14/06, Back Bay
53 Eddie Rowell, 09/14/06, Roxbury
54 Robert,Foxworth, 09/28/06, Dorchester
55 Hardy Celestin, 10/11/06, Roslindale
56 Jeff Igbineweka,10/12/06, Roslindale
57 Levar Jackson, 10/13/06, Dorchester
58 Adilson Barros, 10/14/06, Dorchester
59 Paulo Barros, 10/15/06, Dorchester
60 David “Pablo” Robinson, 10/22/06, Dorchester
61 Walter Jackson, 10/26/06, Dorchester
62 Edward Lee, 10/28/06, Roxbury
63 Sandra Reavis, 11/02/06, Dorchester
64 Kevin Hines, 11/04/06, Dorchester
65 Hakeen Horton, 11/07/06, Roxbury
66 Willie Reynoso, 11/12/06, South Boston
67 Deborah Douglas, 11/18/06, Roxbury
68 Jonathan Jacques, 11/26/06, Dorchester
69 Jahmol A. Norfleet, 11/28/06, Roxbury
70 UNIDENTIFIED, 12/05/06, Dorchester
71 Craig Vierra, 12/08/06, Kenmore Square |
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CV Watch Dog
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 Posts: 20
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Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:09 am Post subject: |
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